Bought a Never splashed Colvic Countess 33 on eBay, Looking for infos

[GregOddity]

re righting moment. if you picture the boat laid down to horizontal your additional mast height weight plus stay wires and sail will have the same leverage as 10 times the weight on the keel. Does it matter. It all depends on if you are going to have the boat laid down to horizontal. or more importantly if you worry about that. if you ahve the patience to plow through Racing Rules of Sailing you will find formular for stability that are considered a standard for ocean racing. takes in to account ballast weights mast heights etc. You could do well to compare your proposed mast height to that formular fro comparison. ol'will

I’m not sure I want to be the one calculating that, however I am trying to better my understanding of it and will definitely be taking a look. You don’t happen to have a link?

 

[GregOddity]

Serve me right for saying invariably...

worry not, you should know by now that "standard" is not part of this here project

 

[Wansworth]

Laminar flow may give you a few pointers I believe he improved the rig on his Colvic

 

[GregOddity]

I am tempted to go 13m on the mast, cutting 1m off at the top and having the extra metre on the original sail plan. I’m not going to win any races on a Colvic Countess but having sailed a sister ship, it did give me the feeling it could very well handle a bit more cloth. She’s really a no drama type of Lady and very well behaved. I’ve sailed her on strong winds, light winds, and she never threw a tantrum. Having said that she had in mast furling and bilge keels and that did change a bit the way I like to sail.

After reading the comments I am staying with the double spreader arrangement. It does make sense not to change a mast that was probably conceived for double spreaders. Now the interesting part is going to be finding dimensions and angles for the spreaders so I can fabricate them. This is a Kemp mast that I understand now is Selden.

The chain plates will of course have to be moved and altered to accommodate a double spreader arrangement, that part I understand. How is the next question.

The backstays and forestays are also something I need to understand for I have no idea, yet, what the arrangement should be like.

 

[anoccasionalyachtsman]

If you're not fitting a mizzen then I'd definitely fit the whole 14m. And for the same reason and contrary to what I said earlier, you now need to move the mast back AND increase the boom length.

 

[Stemar]

If you're not fitting a mizzen then I'd definitely fit the whole 14m. And for the same reason and contrary to what I said earlier, you now need to move the mast back AND increase the boom length.

I'm inclined to agree if the hull and keel can stand the extra weight aloft and, on as a fully qualified armchair expert, and on the basis of no evidence except the bombproof reputation of Colvics, I reckon it will.

I had a Snapdragon for many years and, while she was a delightful boat from many points of view, fast she was not. I recently sailed on a friend's Snappy, which had a longer mast and boom and she sailed way better in the light winds we encountered. Sure, you'll have to reef earlier, and I'd want 3 reefs rather than the two most the pics of them seem to show, but the extra in light airs will enable you to sail when sailing's relaxing, not just when the wind gets up.

 

[GregOddity]

If you're not fitting a mizzen then I'd definitely fit the whole 14m. And for the same reason and contrary to what I said earlier, you now need to move the mast back AND increase the boom length.

I was afraid of saying 2 metres above the sail plan and have the whole forum come crashing down on my head so I went with the one metre with my excellent armchair mast length calculations expertise. The mast is coming back as much as I can get away with and still fit a boom vang without touching the raised coach roof, leaving a good spacing in between of course. I’m already on the look out for a compression post as well.

 

[AntarcticPilot]

I was afraid of saying 2 metres above the sail plan and have the whole forum come crashing down on my head so I went with the one metre with my excellent armchair mast length calculations expertise. The mast is coming back as much as I can get away with and still fit a boom vang without touching the raised coach roof, leaving a good spacing in between of course. I’m already on the look out for a compression post as well.

I'm curious. What's wrong with the ketch rig she was designed for? If you need extra sail area, a mizzen staysail will do that excellently well, and if you wantflexibility of sail plan, you can't beat a ketch.

 

[GregOddity]

I'm inclined to agree if the hull and keel can stand the extra weight aloft and, on as a fully qualified armchair expert, and on the basis of no evidence except the bombproof reputation of Colvics, I reckon it will.

I had a Snapdragon for many years and, while she was a delightful boat from many points of view, fast she was not. I recently sailed on a friend's Snappy, which had a longer mast and boom and she sailed way better in the light winds we encountered. Sure, you'll have to reef earlier, and I'd want 3 reefs rather than the two most the pics of them seem to show, but the extra in light airs will enable you to sail when sailing's relaxing, not just when the wind gets up.

I’m also only basing my excellent mast height calculations on the bombproof reputation of the Colvic. Not sure how I feel about the 2m thought but in lighter air you can read War and Peace while balancing a few plates and juggling a few Rum bottles without a tilt of any kind or much forward motion to go with it.

I am very partial to 3 reefs and I do tend to reef early. Except when I don’t and my pre puberty genes manifest themselves.

 

[Fr J Hackett]

I am finding it all rather disappointing talking about changing sail plan, mast hight, boom and yet still no windows in and like as not no bulkheads. All a bit cart before horse and silk purse out of sows ear I am afraid.
But best of luck, you do make entertaining reading in the break from cabinet fitting and waiting for lacquer to dry.

 

[GregOddity]

I'm curious. What's wrong with the ketch rig she was designed for? If you need extra sail area, a mizzen staysail will do that excellently well, and if you wantflexibility of sail plan, you can't beat a ketch.

The Countess 33 was designed with 2 different rigs possible for the same boat. The Ketch and the Sloop. I do like a good ketch and I’ve done most of my Atlantic miles on a Ketch. However, I think the question must be answered in my case as a matter of preference. I favour the Sloop of late.

I learned on a 26m (85 feet) wooden ketch gaff rigged. Having a ketch at that length makes perfect sense in the management of the sails under any wind conditions. However, on a 33-footer I rather have less sails to manage. As with everything sailing it’s all about the trade off’s. I also would have need of more sails, more rigging, and one more mast and boom which adds to the cost. (poor man sailor at the moment)

 

[GregOddity]

I am finding it all rather disappointing talking about changing sail plan, mast hight, boom and yet still no windows in and like as not no bulkheads. All a bit cart before horse and silk purse out of sows ear I am afraid.
But best of luck, you do make entertaining reading in the break from cabinet fitting and waiting for lacquer to dry.

We're only too happy to entertain you while your lacquer dries. However, I’m afraid I am the bearer of bad news concerning the windows as they will bring further disappointment to your expectations. The windows are not programmed to go in anywhere in the near future. In fact, it’s one of the last tasks on the list due to the fact of the interior and even some parts of the exterior having interventions. As for the Bulkheads worry not, they are getting dressed and will come down to the dance floor shortly. But… also not before a number of things happen.

We can however supply more lacquer to minimise your disappointment.

 

[AntarcticPilot]

The Countess 33 was designed with 2 different rigs possible for the same boat. The Ketch and the Sloop. I do like a good ketch and I’ve done most of my Atlantic miles on a Ketch. However, I think the question must be answered in my case as a matter of preference. I favour the Sloop of late.

I learned on a 26m (85 feet) wooden ketch gaff rigged. Having a ketch at that length makes perfect sense in the management of the sails under any wind conditions. However, on a 33-footer I rather have less sails to manage. As with everything sailing it’s all about the trade off’s. I also would have need of more sails, more rigging, and one more mast and boom which adds to the cost. (poor man sailor at the moment)

Of course, personal preference is important! I'm the other way; in your position, I'd want the ketch rig as being easier to handle single-handed. I don't see much difference in costs - yes, there's more rigging, but a lot of it is much lighter. and the total sail area is about the same, so the costs of sails will be similar.

 

[GregOddity]

Of course, personal preference is important! I'm the other way; in your position, I'd want the ketch rig as being easier to handle single-handed. I don't see much difference in costs - yes, there's more rigging, but a lot of it is much lighter. and the total sail area is about the same, so the costs of sails will be similar.

I must admit I personally struggled with the question and still do. I do love the ketch rigg and a good mizzen well set is almost an auto pilot, to balance the boat on any type of winds the mizzen is a great “almost crew” help.

I think it’s a matter of what I got to work with at the moment which is not a lot of money and what I can find and afford is what it’s going in. Within reason of course. Having said that, perhaps because I sailed mostly on ketch, I’m enjoying the challenge of mastering sloop and messing about with the sails. I do a lot of single hand sailing and yes more than once I thought I could use a mizzen but I’m guessing mostly the sloop is a “phase”. All part of growing up

 

[Fr J Hackett]

We're only too happy to entertain you while your lacquer dries. However, I’m afraid I am the bearer of bad news concerning the windows as they will bring further disappointment to your expectations. The windows are not programmed to go in anywhere in the near future. In fact, it’s one of the last tasks on the list due to the fact of the interior and even some parts of the exterior having interventions. As for the Bulkheads worry not, they are getting dressed and will come down to the dance floor shortly. But… also not before a number of things happen.

We can however supply more lacquer to minimise your disappointment.

I have plenty of lacquer thanks
I do follow your project if not the progress with interest as it does have potential. My point about the windows and bulkheads as ever was all about getting the interior dry and clean, somewhere to work in the coming cold wet winter months. I seem to remember something about carbon fibre laminate bulkheads, I was intrigued and did wonder how they were going on. As I said though best of luck, I can't offer any significant advice on the mast but agree with you that at 33 foot I would prefer a sloop or better still cutter over a ketch so I can see the advantage and appeal there and the boat was configured for both so the change should be well detailed and in the scheme of things easy..

 

[GregOddity]

I have plenty of lacquer thanks
I do follow your project if not the progress with interest as it does have potential. My point about the windows and bulkheads as ever was all about getting the interior dry and clean, somewhere to work in the coming cold wet winter months. I seem to remember something about carbon fibre laminate bulkheads, I was intrigued and did wonder how they were going on. As I said though best of luck, I can't offer any significant advice on the mast but agree with you that at 33 foot I would prefer a sloop or better still cutter over a ketch so I can see the advantage and appeal there and the boat was configured for both so the change should be well detailed and in the scheme of things easy..

We’re in the process of having her moved in the yard for better access. Sadly, the Fuelgate got in the way. We’re making her water tight this week and begin the prep work for some of the major components. We can’t fit the windows because there is a number of items on the list that need ticking before we seal the windows in place. But she’s going to get watertight so we can work on her inside on wet and cold weather conditions of course. The bulkheads, have gone through a number of iterations. Mostly they are going to be aluminium fibreglass. That’s down to a combination of price and quality balance.

At 33 I really prefer the sloop or cutter to ketch. The boat came prepared for both and the modifications are minor for single mast.

 

[LadyInBed]

I am tempted to go 13m on the mast

The spec shows two optional mainsail areas see Lady in Red - Colvic Countess : Monty Mariner
The Sloop came with a taller mast than the Ketch.

 

[GregOddity]

The spec shows two optional mainsail areas see Lady in Red - Colvic Countess : Monty Mariner
The Sloop came with a taller mast than the Ketch.

Absolutely, I’m going by the plans as I have a complete set that I copied and another in digital format that the Colvic owners association kindly provided.

The mast for the sloop version according to the plans is 12m. What I’m trying to ascertain and understand is if the boat can have a taller mast and by how much.

PS- Shes a beauty in red

 

[LadyInBed]

I’m going sloop instead of ketch. Funny enough I was told the spreaders were swept back, but I found only a baby stay attachment point on the front of the mast so I’m assuming it was not fractional. I also never saw the old spreaders so no idea if they were swept back.

If you look at the drawings in my previous link you will see that the sloop shows a baby stay and what looks like a running backstay near the top of the mast.
On my ketch, the spreaders are not swept back.
This pic from the Countess owners club shows twin spreaders on the sloop, and an inner forestay.

Gallery

 

[LadyInBed]

going by the plans as I have a complete set

Ah! Crossed in the post