Bought a Never splashed Colvic Countess 33 on eBay, Looking for infos

[GregOddity]

If you look at the drawings in my previous link you will see that the sloop shows a baby stay and what looks like a running backstay near the top of the mast.
On my ketch, the spreaders are not swept back.
This pic from the Countess owners club shows twin spreaders on the sloop, and an inner forestay.

Gallery

Great pic, thanks. Yes, the spreaders on this one don’t seem swept back neither. I’m wondering about that for I have absolutely no clue about what type and how they should look like. I’ve just been told that this mast had swept back spreaders besides that I’m still trying to understand the whole shebang

 

[anoccasionalyachtsman]

Great pic, thanks. Yes, the spreaders on this one don’t seem swept back neither. I’m wondering about that for I have absolutely no clue about what type and how they should look like. I’ve just been told that this mast had swept back spreaders besides that I’m still trying to understand the whole shebang

The spreaders themselves will be the usual foil section (but with the inner end cut at the sweep angle, and being Kemp will have a nice cast tip fitting). They'll be cut with a tapered planform. Selden will sell you all of that, but don't expect much change from £500. What you need now though is to have a measure of the sockets. They determine the sweep angle, and you need that to locate and design the chainplates, and ultimately that sets the spreader length you need.

 

[Concerto]

Greg, if you do not push the limits of retaining sail as the wind increases, then I would not shorten the new mast. The extra weight at the top of the mast is so small compared to the overall weight of the rest of the boat. The existing hull is a stable, comfortable design that is a pure cruising yacht, not a race boat pushing the limits of sail carrying ability. Laminar Flow has certainly increased the height of his rig and would be worth sending a PM to as he is very knowledgeable on stability of yachts.

Your most critical thing with the new rig is to find how far behind the mast the cap shrouds should be mounted. Check the distance on the boat it came off, including the width between between both fixings. This should ensure the mast is correctly supported. The loading can be taken to the hull via either a soild glassfibre knee or using a tie bar - whicher suits your internal layout best.

 

[GregOddity]

The spreaders themselves will be the usual foil section (but with the inner end cut at the sweep angle, and being Kemp will have a nice cast tip fitting). They'll be cut with a tapered planform. Selden will sell you all of that, but don't expect much change from £500. What you need now though is to have a measure of the sockets. They determine the sweep angle, and you need that to locate and design the chainplates, and ultimately that sets the spreader length you need.

Problem being that some “poor sailor” desperate to go sailing took the remaining 3 spreaders and sockets from the mast. But as a used mast goes this one is in very good condition and the price was unbeatable. I’m going to fabricate the spreaders as soon as I understand dimensions and angles needed. I did some for some fancy yacht some years ago so mine are going to be beautiful and CHEAP. By the time I finish this boat there won’t be a scrap of metal in my workshop big enough to make a penny washer.

 

[anoccasionalyachtsman]

Problem being that some “poor sailor” desperate to go sailing took the remaining 3 spreaders and sockets from the mast. But as a used mast goes this one is in very good condition and the price was unbeatable. I’m going to fabricate the spreaders as soon as I understand dimensions and angles needed. I did some for some fancy yacht some years ago so mine are going to be beautiful and CHEAP. By the time I finish this boat there won’t be a scrap of metal in my workshop big enough to make a penny washer.

Right...... In which case it's not a swept spreader mast. It's just a mast and can be whichever you want.

 

[GregOddity]

Greg, if you do not push the limits of retaining sail as the wind increases, then I would not shorten the new mast. The extra weight at the top of the mast is so small compared to the overall weight of the rest of the boat. The existing hull is a stable, comfortable design that is a pure cruising yacht, not a race boat pushing the limits of sail carrying ability. Laminar Flow has certainly increased the height of his rig and would be worth sending a PM to as he is very knowledgeable on stability of yachts.

Your most critical thing with the new rig is to find how far behind the mast the cap shrouds should be mounted. Check the distance on the boat it came off, including the width between between both fixings. This should ensure the mast is correctly supported. The loading can be taken to the hull via either a soild glassfibre knee or using a tie bar - whicher suits your internal layout best.

Generally, I’m a pretty safe Sailor. I am an adrenaline junkie in many a thing but sailing was never one. I guess I was taught to look at boats as workhorses that you need to take care off so they take care of you as opposed to seeing sailboats as a “toy”. I do tend to reef very early as I grew up being told that if I think I need to reef I’m already too late doing it.

I guess what I’m trying to say is that I don’t generally push the envelope which doesn’t mean that I’m not going to get caught out with too much canvas and a tea towel hanging of the rigging on a sudden squall.

Light winds are the reason why I would like a bit more sail. Not that I don’t enjoy being out in the Ocean, I just rather be moving.

I may give Laminar flow a PM I’m very curious as to what he’s done and how it changed the boat.

 

[GregOddity]

Right...... In which case it's not a swept spreader mast. It's just a mast and can be whichever you want.

Absolutely, therefore me trying to understand what the full scope of options are on this mast before i move on any direction.

 

[GregOddity]

Generally, I’m a pretty safe Sailor. I am an adrenaline junkie in many a thing but sailing was never one. I guess I was taught to look at boats as workhorses that you need to take care off so they take care of you as opposed to seeing sailboats as a “toy”. I do tend to reef very early as I grew up being told that if I think I need to reef I’m already too late doing it.

I guess what I’m trying to say is that I don’t generally push the envelope which doesn’t mean that I’m not going to get caught out with too much canvas and a tea towel hanging of the rigging on a sudden squall.

Light winds are the reason why I would like a bit more sail. Not that I don’t enjoy being out in the Ocean, I just rather be moving.

I may give Laminar flow a PM I’m very curious as to what he’s done and how it changed the boat.

The facts are these: The mast is 14m long, its in very good condition and was rigged as a swept back double spreader mast

The spreaders and the mast connection are gone so I have no dimensions or angles for them but I am perfectly tooled to fabricate new ones.

The mast may have a section designed to work only with double spreaders.

 

[GregOddity]

On the spreader subject, that's all I got.

 

[Tranona]

Your best bet is to talk to Selden direct.

support.seldenmast.com/services/find_your_retailer/by_country/__country_GB.html

Or one of their dealers

 

[GregOddity]

Your best bet is to talk to Selden direct.

support.seldenmast.com/services/find_your_retailer/by_country/__country_GB.html

Or one of their dealers

Well, it’s certainly worth a try to see if they can give me some pointers. I’ll try calling Selden directly to morrow to see what they say.

 

[William_H]

Just one point of warning. The base of the swept back spreaders need to be very robust in the direction where they want to swing forward. I lost a mast on the little boat when pop rivets corroded letting the base come unstuck and swung forward. The levering forward from the stay to the base is what pushes the middle of the mast forward giving the support. ie replacing intermediate fore stay. (but you probably know that) ol'will

 

[GregOddity]

Just one point of warning. The base of the swept back spreaders need to be very robust in the direction where they want to swing forward. I lost a mast on the little boat when pop rivets corroded letting the base come unstuck and swung forward. The levering forward from the stay to the base is what pushes the middle of the mast forward giving the support. ie replacing intermediate fore stay. (but you probably know that) ol'will

I actually don’t know much about the subject. I’m devouring all the info I can get on the subject but it’s my first immersion on rigging so only dipped my toe so far. I have however been considering the loads involved on swept back spreaders and how it must affect the base connecting it to the mast. I’m not sure if I will go with swept back. Since I don’t have the old spreaders, I can just replace them with normal spreaders which would remove a layer of complexity fabricating the base to the mast.

I will do the base in stainless of course. Looking at various forms of spreader attachment as we speak. Good read with my morning coffee

 

[GregOddity]

That’s the next item on the list. I’m going to have to fabricate a base plate to work as an organiser since the lines don’t come out of sheaves at the base of the mast. I did not look in detail at that “hoof” thing yet but it’s been playing on my mind since I have a feeling that Selden will not be carrying any parts for old Kemp masts. No idea if I should keep that “hoof” or get rid of the thing and fabricate a whole new base

My initial thought was a 6mm/8mm stainless plate on deck with angled sides and holes for sheaves that will receive a base bolted through and then masts steps on top.

 

[chrishscorp]

Sadly, on this mast the sleeving has been done on the top. I did inspect the rivets individually and found no signs of visible stress with the naked eye.

Good that you inspected each rivet and there is no stress visible, you should hopefully be ok, take a straight edge and lay it length ways along the mast accross that joint to check its flat before you chop anything off, if the joint is not flat you could at least completely remake the joint as you have an excess of length. The spliced joints can hide internal corrosion.

 

[Concerto]

Greg, I hope I am not teaching you to suck eggs but a weld dye testing kit might be useful to check the mast.
Flawtek Weld Crack Flaw Detection - Complete 3 Part Kit | eBay

If your halyards are internal and not exiting via the mast foot, it might be better to change it to a mast foot with halyard exits already there.
Mast feet & heel : Seldén Mast AB

 

[Tranona]

That’s the next item on the list. I’m going to have to fabricate a base plate to work as an organiser since the lines don’t come out of sheaves at the base of the mast. I did not look in detail at that “hoof” thing yet but it’s been playing on my mind since I have a feeling that Selden will not be carrying any parts for old Kemp masts. No idea if I should keep that “hoof” or get rid of the thing and fabricate a whole new base

My initial thought was a 6mm/8mm stainless plate on deck with angled sides and holes for sheaves that will receive a base bolted through and then masts steps on top.

That would normally fit into a cast socket on deck and the halyards etc would come out of the mast higher up. If lines are led aft then a stainless plate to shackle blocks can sit around the base, although other arrangements are more common as you can see in the Selden link Concerto has posted. I don't know if any of the current stuff is compatible with the old Kemp section, but you are really only going to find out if you talk to Selden or one of the big rigging outfits like Allspars.

 

[Graham_Wright]

I’ve read everywhere that the Colvic Countess 33 is quite under canvassed.
Now the decisions before me are: the Mast was sleeved and extended to 14m. The Countess 33 sail plan calls for a 12m mast. Extend sail plan by 1m bringing the mast height to 13m instead of the 12m that the original sail plan calls for? It would be relatively easy to cut the mast above the sleeve leaving it at 13m
Would this be beneficial on a vessel that seems to have a very conservative sail plan? This would also include perhaps extending the boom and adding a circa 30cm bowsprit for the genoa. Considering that I’m a very early reefer and not knowing the pitfalls of such a decision makes for an interesting subject to ponder. Yes, I understand sails and having a couple of Ocean crossings and a “few” miles on gaff rigged vessels I’m not a complete idiot. Just a partial one.

I too learned from the COA that a bit more canvas would be beneficial. I contacted Ian Anderson who agreed the mast could be longer.

I opted for a 14 metre mast. Ian suggested increasing the ballast to compensate which I did.

The Countess 33 is very stiff!

I have double spreaders and the chain plates are through bolted to the bulkheads for almost a metre. The spreaders are not swept.

I also went for a longer boom. That was to save my neck when standing at the helm.

As a paranoid, I fitted twin forestays and twin backstay. I do like redundancy except when it happened to me.

The mast support pillar specified by IA looked a bit like a piece of gas pipe. Mine is 120X 100 stainless box. ( It came free from the chicken processors across the business park). It is over the top!

When you come to windows, I have proved that glass does bend (aft cabin).

My mast sits in a shallow socket.

Not to say it is the best arrangement but my two penworth.

 

[anoccasionalyachtsman]

That would normally fit into a cast socket on deck and the halyards etc would come out of the mast higher up. If lines are led aft then a stainless plate to shackle blocks can sit around the base, although other arrangements are more common as you can see in the Selden link Concerto has posted. I don't know if any of the current stuff is compatible with the old Kemp section, but you are really only going to find out if you talk to Selden or one of the big rigging outfits like Allspars.

Not a socket but an inverted T section I think. Sometimes the vertical part is drilled for bolts that limit for and aft adjustment/movement, but I think I see a lump in this heel's groove that might engage a notch in the T.

Either way, we're agreed on talking to Selden. They've been very helpful to me - but a charity they are not.

 

[steveeasy]

Having a bigger than standard rig is not allways a good thing. Only really benificial in the lightest of winds. Your have to reec early. More money for rigging and canvas and your boats balance will be wrong. I do recall she was a ketch though so that adds anofher dimension to the boats CofE and such like.
Steveeasy