Tranona
Well-Known Member
Yes a broker would have got the arrangement written into the contract and probably increased the retention to cover the expected final yard bill.
Boatyard won’t release boat
- Thread starter WayneP
- Start date
davidpbo
Well-Known Member
Don't seem to be any figures available.
E.g value of boat, outstanding fees etc. Either could negligible, substantial or in-between. There could be a long history between the yard and the vendor of
With regard to a previous post, some people do keep modest low value boats in marinas, yards and on moorings, where to he annual cost of berthing may greatly equal or surpass the value of the boat depending on the area.
E.g value of boat, outstanding fees etc. Either could negligible, substantial or in-between. There could be a long history between the yard and the vendor of
With regard to a previous post, some people do keep modest low value boats in marinas, yards and on moorings, where to he annual cost of berthing may greatly equal or surpass the value of the boat depending on the area.
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Bouba
Well-Known Member
So true, there so many ‘projects’ that have sat for years in the yard. Some are even lived in, I often wonder what their arrangements are.
thinwater
Well-Known Member
As with a house, you engauge the services of a title management company, which does a search and has insurance to cover any errors. This does NOT require going through a broker.
Tranona
Well-Known Member
In the UK a broker does this, or you engage a specialist marine lawyer. The latter is very rare because it is overkill unless the boat is high value or the history complicated. Normally the search is part of the broker's work in selling the boat, but many will also provide the service separately to ebuyers or sellers in a private sale. With property in the UK the search is carried out by what is known as Conveyancer who is normally a lawyer, but is licenced by the state.
JumbleDuck
Well-Known Member
How do you know?
Tranona
Well-Known Member
Because that was what the OP says was agreed. See post#6
Many posters seem not to have read that post which is key to the problem. Instead the thread takes on a life of its own and goes off in all sorts of different directions unrelated to the OPs situation.
Hopefully the OP will return with a progress report. However he may not seeing how much hot air has been expended here that does not help him.
Mudisox
Well-Known Member
I only look at the thread to see the outcome to be honest.
Tranona
Well-Known Member
May be unlucky this time!
JumbleDuck
Well-Known Member
At what point was the boat sold free of encumbrances, though? And was the previous owner going to pay until some jobs were completed and the boat launched, as post #6 says, or until sea trials were passed, as you wrote and which was the point of the retention. With all due respect, I think you are confusing two issues.
Here's a nice, easy question. To whom does the boat currently belong?
Refueler
Well-Known Member
The boat is in effect still property of seller until all money and conditions are completed between Seller and Buyer. Some may try to say its neither or its buyers ... but having only paid part of the money - its like a holding deposit in effect despite whatever description is given.
TernVI
Well-Known Member
That might depend on what the contract says.
Since possession is said to be 9/10ths of the law, the answer might be 'the marina'.
I think it's a very bad idea to get involved with complicated deals as amateurs.
penberth3
Well-Known Member
Another easy question - Who is insuring the boat at the moment?
Refueler
Well-Known Member
The only people really interested in that would be Marina for recovery of any damages, refloating / salvage etc. As we all know - in UK - insurance is not compulsory so a non issue really.
Tranona
Well-Known Member
No I am not. The contract and the BoS and transfer of title are completely separate issues, but interlinked. All the BoS does is record the transfer of title, which does not have to be 100%. It is the contract that determines when the goods (boat) actually changes hands. So the seller still owns the boat and is responsible for the bills according to the contract. He should also still be insuring the boat, although it would make sense for the buyer to also insure his interest in the boat as he has paid the majority of the contract price.
It is a matter of fact that the boat is not yet free of encumberance as it has not been delivered because of outstanding work and yard bills (and a satisfactory sea trial or satisfaction of the buyer by other means). At handover he must clear all bills and any other work required by the contract. Then the free title has passed. I would be looking for a receipt from the yard, any outstanding paperwork (old BoS for example) and the keys in exchange for the final payment. That is how a broker would handle handover.
I explained all this earlier when I described the process of purchasing my new boat. I insured my boat on the day it was complete at the factory and I paid the final instalment, even though it would not be handed over fully until 6 weeks later after transport to UK, commissioning and sea trials. Effectively the same situation the OP is in. As further explanation of the BoS in relation to the contract, when I was responsible for contracts with the boat builder I worked for, many of our contracts required a BoS after every stage payment transferring title for the boat at that stage to the buyer. This type of contract is commonly used for custom and semicustom boats and indeed was the saviour for many buyers in the final days of Westerly and later Northshore (and no doubt other now bust builders). When the companies went bust, the part complete boats belonged to the buyers (rather than being assets of the company), who could then arrange for completion under a separate contract either with another yard or more commonly with the administrator or successor company.
penberth3
Well-Known Member
Rubbish. Insurance is definitely an issue. Lets say the seller has cancelled or not paid the insurance. The buyer isn't sure if he owns the boat yet, so might not have insured it himself. Boat gets damaged or destroyed, or a third party claim for some reason, what happens then? Is it still a "non-issue"?
Refueler
Well-Known Member
First of all ... who is to insure the boat ? Answer who is actually owner at this time ? You think Insurance Co. will issue insurance for a boat that is effectively in 'limbo' ?
If the boat gets damaged or destroyed by anothers action .... THEIR insurance pays .... or claim in court.
JumbleDuck
Well-Known Member
I don't know the answer myself. When I bought a flat in Edinburgh, many years ago, there was retention of around 1/3 of the purchase price for various issues to be sorted, but the flat was definitely mine six months before that money was paid.
If the bill of sale says "One pound and other considerations", would the payment of one pound be enough to make the transfer? Or is it the signatures on the document, regardless of whether any money has changed hands? I guess this must be fairly standard contract law.
Bouba
Well-Known Member
If the sale is delayed then the seller racks up more yard fees. So he is incentivized to sort it out
JumbleDuck
Well-Known Member
You've just said that the Bill of Sale, which has been signed, records the transfer of title, and also that the seller still owns the boat. Those two statements are mutually contradictory.
So far so good, but you are still mixing up two different issues, or perhaps two different timescales. From what the OP has said,
(1) The seller has agreed to pay yard bills until some (unspecified) work has been done and the boat has been launched and
(2) The seller has agree to wait for some payment until a satisfactory sea trial has taken place.
Until launched and until sea trials completed. Two different times, and neither need be when ownership is transferred.
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