Boatyard won’t release boat

What does arise for me, from topic like this one, is that people really ought to be studying or taking basic courses in applicable areas of law, e.g. consumer & contract. Indeed, given the demise of legal aid in the UK, I've long thought they should be teaching it in schools in order to protect people in their later lives.

I became involved in a similar case recent where both sides, indeed both sides AND the respective harbour masters, were behaving attrociously; & this whole "data protection act" get out for the petty minded bureaucrats is a separate scourge used as an excuse when a simple "I don't know" would be the honest answer.

In that case, the harbour master's office minion was trying it on too, attempting to gouge the buyer for fees clearly owed by the seller according to their poorly, & ambiguously written BoS. They also clearly did not understanding the law. The buyer was then in a panic about the rising fees for a boat left dumped on a visitors berth, that they were then not being allowed to remove. The office attempting to get them off him.

Like cops who always just arrest whoever is standing in front of them, rather than have to go & find the real criminal.

Of course, as someone above wrote, possession is 9/10th of the law; and so sometimes the best thing to do is "say nothing to no one", give as little information away as possible, don't over react to provocation, NEVER threaten anything, & just possess the disputed item first (i.e. sail it away).

Harder to do if it's on the hard standing though, & a HIAB won't reach over the fence.
 
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First of all ... who is to insure the boat ? Answer who is actually owner at this time ? You think Insurance Co. will issue insurance for a boat that is effectively in 'limbo' ?
Absolutely. You need to have an insurable interest in a boat to insure it, so who owns it matters very much indeed and can't just be handwaved away.
 
First of all ... who is to insure the boat ? Answer who is actually owner at this time ? You think Insurance Co. will issue insurance for a boat that is effectively in 'limbo' ?

If the boat gets damaged or destroyed by anothers action .... THEIR insurance pays .... or claim in court.

You're missing my original point, which was whether the boat is currently insured.
 
Two small additions to my comment above.

a) Something else to consider about maritime law (the body of law that governs nautical issues and private maritime disputes) which could also enter into the equation depending on where the boat is, is that it's worth entirely nothing if the boat's only worth a few hundred, or even a couple of thousand quid. It's so costly & time consuming that it's simply not worth a marina or authority going down that route.

Although it theoretically binds the hands of the authority, & I've known clubs to tie themselves in knots with it, they'll be begging you just to take the boat away.

b) Even IF there's no way out except legal action, it's really nothing to worry about because pre-action protocols REQUIRE all parties to attempt to resolve matters via mediation first.

So just do it first.

Far better to forget "the law" & just apply a commonsense approach.

Besides which, you don't want all this to sour your new love.

Door step the guy on Sunday morning, or arrange to meet him at the marina office.
 
You've just said that the Bill of Sale, which has been signed, records the transfer of title, and also that the seller still owns the boat. Those two statements are mutually contradictory.

So far so good, but you are still mixing up two different issues, or perhaps two different timescales. From what the OP has said,

(1) The seller has agreed to pay yard bills until some (unspecified) work has been done and the boat has been launched and

(2) The seller has agree to wait for some payment until a satisfactory sea trial has taken place.

Until launched and until sea trials completed. Two different times, and neither need be when ownership is transferred.
You are making it too complicated. The buyer does not get full title until the contract is complete. Ideally the BoS is signed at the handover, and if the sale is through a broker payment would be held in a client account until completion and handover and all outstanding bills would be paid by the broker from the proceeds of the sale which are held in the account before passing the balance on to the seller. However this is a private sale and the buyer has paid the majority of the purchase price direct to the seller and the BoS is recognition of his interest in the boat. The contract is key - the BoS is only a record and is not essential to show that title has changed hands, just a convenient document. It does not say anything about the contract, its terms or even the consideration. For example a BoS can be used to transfer title to a family member (or anybody) even if there is no consideration. It only has legal significance if the title is registered.

Suspect you have not read my description of my last 3 transactions with boats where in each case the BoS was signed at a different time from the handover of the boat and in each case the contract included conditions that had to be met by the seller between the time of the BoS and handover according to the contract.

There really is nothing unusual about the OP's situation and as I have said many times he just needs to clarify with the seller that he is in a position to pay the yard bills before handover. If not he has the retention amount to deal with that and then he can pursue the buyer for breach of contract (he did not deliver the boat free of encumbrance) for the amount of the bills. This is a last resort though because the retention was linked to satisfactory sea trials
 
There really is nothing unusual about the OP's situation and as I have said many times he just needs to clarify with the seller that he is in a position to pay the yard bills before handover. If not he has the retention amount to deal with that and then he can pursue the buyer for breach of contract (he did not deliver the boat free of encumbrance) for the amount of the bills. This is a last resort though because the retention was linked to satisfactory sea trials

AS you say and have said - it is very simple.

This will soon be able to replace an anchor thread for continuity and repetition.


What we need is an update from the OP.

Jonathan
 
I’ve asked the boatyard to move the boat onto a lorry in the next few weeks. They say they won’t because the previous owner has to settle his account (pay his bill).

Any advice please?
So, after all that, ask them to pencil it in, assuring them they will get paid.

Is there any suggestion that the seller will baulk or fail to come through yet?

Would still like to know how much you gave him as a deposit, on what security?
 
AS you say and have said - it is very simple.

This will soon be able to replace an anchor thread for continuity and repetition.


What we need is an update from the OP.

Jonathan
I agree. The OP has had enough advice to take this all the way to the Supreme Court
 
Awaiting the return of WayneP with bated breath.
Hello all
I had a meeting with the boat seller. Amongst some ‘bon homie’ he said he would take care of the boatyard bill.

As stated previously I held back some money (10%) until the boat is in the water. His bill is 4x this amount. He’s just bought and kitted out a racing yacht and had a successful Saturday sail.

The current stress is trying to arrange a rigger, haulage company and the boatyard in the hope that the boat is released next week. As long as he pays the bill.

I’ll provide another update as the situation develops. Thanks for the information and interest.
Awaiting the return of WayneP with bated breath.
 
As stated previously I held back some money (10%) until the boat is in the water. His bill is 4x this amount. He’s just bought and kitted out a racing yacht and had a successful Saturday sail.
Ah, that finally puts the outstanding bill into some perspective. In now seems clearer that the previous owner either settles the bill as anticipated or, one way or another, the deal is off and you get your money back which would be a very unsatisfactory outcome.

Richard
 
Or the seller whp has 90 % of the money does a runner and you are left with ? Why has he not paid yet?. And more costs.
Hope all turns out well.
Steveeasy
 
Hello all
I had a meeting with the boat seller. Amongst some ‘bon homie’ he said he would take care of the boatyard bill.

As stated previously I held back some money (10%) until the boat is in the water. His bill is 4x this amount. He’s just bought and kitted out a racing yacht and had a successful Saturday sail.

The current stress is trying to arrange a rigger, haulage company and the boatyard in the hope that the boat is released next week. As long as he pays the bill.

I’ll provide another update as the situation develops. Thanks for the information and interest.

Are you paying for all this? Be aware of cancellation costs if it doesn't go to plan, i.e. the bill isn't settled in time.
 
Are you paying for all this? Be aware of cancellation costs if it doesn't go to plan, i.e. the bill isn't settled in time.
The arrangements are 'pencilled in' right now and I'm cautious to pay out for pre-booking until the boatyard bill has been paid. The seller is covering the boatyard storage right now as we stipulated that in the contract. However he also said in the contract there were 'no encumbrances'.
 
Sounds like cash from the sale has gone into his next boat, hence the cash flow issue!

As stated previously I held back some money (10%) until the boat is in the water. His bill is 4x this amount. He’s just bought and kitted out a racing yacht and had a successful Saturday sail.

Ouch! I wish you lots of luck in sorting it out.
 
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