Boat prices?

[Tradewinds]

Is it?

You hear a lot about people keeping boats in France but not so much in Holland. Anyone do this, how does it rate?

Amsterdam marina - 3 years old I think. I'd rate it as very good (see facilities).
Pontoons, elec, wifi, water. Excellent showers etc.
No haul-out or on-site marine facilities.
5 mins from ferry to Central Station (14 mins)

From the current literature.

2015-16 annual rates/m (inc 21% tax) - I was told there would be a small 2%'ish inc for 2016-17
7m - €1.33
8m - €1.52
9m - €1.71
10m - €2.04
11m - €2.38
12m - €2.72
13m - €3.06
etc
Places available

Daily rates €2 all inc
Discounts 10% for 7 days, %more for 14 days - can be applied retrospectively (it was for me).

I'm sure the smaller provincial marinas are way cheaper still.

Still got the cost of getting there on a regular basis though.

 

[sailorman]

Probably just as many as did similar things 50 years ago.

I very much doubt that, most would have been away from the family home by 25.

 

[Tranona]

I very much doubt that, most would have been away from the family home by 25.

Just your perception from the sector of society that you and i came from.

What is wrong with people making their own choices about what they spend their money on? Thought that was what made our society work in the way it currently does - even if it means fewer are prepared to buy boats.

 

[SigmaJon]

Just your perception from the sector of society that you and i came from.

What is wrong with people making their own choices about what they spend their money on?.

What is wrong; is that they are not buying my boat. :nonchalance: looks as if I might have to join them and do a weeks charter once a year.
For me the difference is the lack of a shed. The boat isn't just a weeks holiday it is my man cave, somewhere to tinker, whittle and tune. I guess the younger generation don't have time to take time out to potter.

 

[RAI]

In my "young couple" mortgage days I could get 3 times my annual salary but had to add 25% myself for an average 3 bedroom terraced or semi. Now my daughters have to find around 6 times their salary, and that's outside London. At their age, I could afford a car, they can't. Yet they are in similar jobs, not benefiters and not banksters. It looks to me as though their disposable income has less room for boats than mine did.

 

[TheCharteringClasses]

But go clubbing in Ibza with all their so called friends with alcohol & drugs fuelled nights totally out of control

You do realise that out of control, drug and alcohol fuelled clubbing in Ibiza is a very cheap activity these days?

A weekend getting wrecked in Ibiza can easily come in cheaper than a relatively sedate evening in London, the drugs alone can be a huge saving.

 

[sailorman]

Its 30 yrs since i was last there in San Antonio

 

[TheCharteringClasses]

...looks as if I might have to join them and do a weeks charter once a year.

Parking a 30yr old 28foot boat in Preston 1600 quid/yr for around 2 weeks sailing.

Renting a shiny new AWB in Greece 1600 quid for around 2 weeks sailing.

There are ancillaries with both (mostly alcohol, drugs and whores, which are admittedly very good value in Preston), but the renting doesn't require sinking 10-20k in an illiquid depreciating asset.

 

[flaming]

Parking a 30yr old 28foot boat in Preston 1600 quid/yr for around 2 weeks sailing.

Renting a shiny new AWB in Greece 1600 quid for around 2 weeks sailing.

It's the trend with a lot of things these days. Hence the growth in zipcar etc. Why own a car that mostly just sits there when you can just rent one when needed?

But the generational point is valid too. At my age now my Dad owned a boat. I'm certainly not in a position to do that, but I've done a ton of things, travelling, ski seasons etc that Dad didn't. I'm sure I'll own a boat eventually, but it's not a priority.
Right now I'll always sacrifice sailing to go skiing if I have to. Skiing the way I want to is a young mans game, I've got maybe a decade more of being able to do the type of skiing I want to, I've (hopefully) got quite a lot longer than that to sail. So the spare cash is earmarked for heliskiing not boats at the moment...

 

[syfuga]

Some quite interesting and thoughtful contributions! But a bit depressing.

We financed our boat purchase on early retirement by flogging the house. We took the view that if we spent money on her as we went along to maintain her equipment in date, then we would find it easier to sell her.

It seems we were mistaken. There just hasn't been any demand in the market for an admittedly high spec boat, but equally we are not prepared to give her away.

Let the grim reaper reap what he will!

 

[doris]

And how many of those still live & sponge off Mum n Dad, paying little or no keep.But go clubbing in Ibza with all their so called friends with alcohol & drugs fuelled nights totally out of control

You are a very sad man.

 

[sailorman]

You are a very sad man.

you forgot to add "In your humble opinion" :encouragement:

 

[pvb]

Some quite interesting and thoughtful contributions! But a bit depressing.

We financed our boat purchase on early retirement by flogging the house. We took the view that if we spent money on her as we went along to maintain her equipment in date, then we would find it easier to sell her.

It seems we were mistaken. There just hasn't been any demand in the market for an admittedly high spec boat, but equally we are not prepared to give her away.

Your boat has a nice spec, but so will similar boats (perhaps apart from the generator, which won't appeal to everyone anyway). As I recall, your boat was marketed at a rather, shall we say, ambitious price of around £140K, so it's maybe not surprising you weren't inundated with viewings. Don't know what your current asking price is, but there's a similar boat, 2 years newer, on offer now at £88K. Boats are selling, and can sell very quickly, but the asking price needs to be fairly realistic.

 

[doug748]

Some quite interesting and thoughtful contributions! But a bit depressing.
.........

Yep a bit....

I enjoyed your blog and see you got chased out of Anse de Kersos in 2013. Did you see these posts? -

http://www.ybw.com/forums/showthread.php?437234-French-marinas-trying-to-prohibit-anchoring

I see you were suspicious as well, did you ever follow it up?

 

[syfuga]

We had the advice of two brokers back in February, one Jonic of this place, another Waterside, and have had her priced at £95K. Absolutely zero interest.

True, some people would get no value from the generator, solar panels, wind generator, inverter, SSB, freezer, rib in davits, sensible windlass and ground tackle, but other than the SSB (we didn't do the Atlantic other than the Azores) it was all good stuff for serious cruising, but none of it so valuable for sailing out of a marina.

Yes, we first priced it at £140K plus to pacify SWMBO, brought it down to £130K quite smartly, but then other sister ships were asking around these figures. Now realistically, we are talking in the 60's and 70's for ones sold recently, but none of them equipped as ours or all in reasonable working order.

 

[pvb]

We had the advice of two brokers back in February, one Jonic of this place, another Waterside, and have had her priced at £95K. Absolutely zero interest.

But your boat isn't listed on their websites.

 

[syfuga]

It is now off the market! We have decided to take her down to the Villaine for a year or two or three...

 

[syfuga]

Hi Doug,

You have a good memory! I did write to the Capitaine but he did not bother to reply.

John

 

[Sailfree]

Over 10yrs of reading scuttlebutt I know that older boats are best, new boats are rubbish oversized caravans that no sailor would take out in anything greater that a F2.

A real sailor only buys a boat that can beat off a lee shore in a F9.

Manufacturers know nothing and should go back to building old designs. Fancy building spacious boats with separate heads and hot & cold running water and some even have (like mine) a stupid shower cubicle! Wives should be trained in roughing it and using buckets!

and now secondhand boat buyers know nothing and don't want to buy old design properly built boats

what is the world coming to?

EDIT - currently in Paimpol for the music festival with one harbour full of beautiful traditional wooden boats - they look wonderful - but owning one - I had enough trying to maintain my wooden Wayfarer!!

 

[Tranona]

Over 10yrs of reading scuttlebutt I know that older boats are best, new boats are rubbish oversized caravans that no sailor would take out in anything greater that a F2.

A real sailor only buys a boat that can beat off a lee shore in a F9.

Manufacturers know nothing and should go back to building old designs. Fancy building spacious boats with separate heads and hot & cold running water and some even have (like mine) a stupid shower cubicle! Wives should be trained in roughing it and using buckets!

and now secondhand boat buyers know nothing and don't want to buy old design properly built boats

what is the world coming to?

All this may well be true. However, as I know to my cost selling "modern" boats even though they have all the features you say are desirable are not selling either! - or at least not at the sort of money they were fetching only 2 years ago. In 2013, 3 Bav 37s like mine sold for over £50k, in 2014 one sold for just over £40k. Mine is still on the market at £45k so realistically likely to go for the same. Only 3 serious viewings since late 2014. Fortunately not my problem now.