Boat prices?

[Medskipper]

I'm reluctant to say "she should" do anything! I can however see your point. I had someone today ask what was wrong with the boat and had to assure them it is all in good condition. Unfortunately I then found they bought a similar boat recently.
Allan

Yes its human psychology, most people don't really believe in bargains but strangely we all desire one! Price too low and potential buyers will always think you are hiding something! People will always seek to get you to drop your price so my first point is price it just below the highest and second point is make it clear that you are ready to negotiate.
Good luck.

 

[SigmaJon]

I have had a good boat on the market for nearly two years and have had to drop the price a couple of times. I would say that the market is at an extreme low. I would say don't drop the price unless you really have to sell it quickly as I have been getting silly offers 20-25% of the already dropped price. I actually know the boat you are talking about (lovely boat) and tried to make an offer 20% below in order to be able to accept the low offers I have been recieving on mine. If we all hold to the higher prices the market will not move.
I am trying to get a good enough price for my Sigma 36 in order to downsize to a Moody 31.

 

[Buck Turgidson]

I don't think the prices will bounce either. There are any number of boats entering the used boat market every year and they are boats which sold new at considerably lower prices than the marks you are trying to sell.
It's market economics. Just look at used car prices for old high quality cars. They sell for pennies despite being very high end when new.

 

[derekgillard]

I've bought and sold this year,

My Sadler 29 was on the market for 5 months and out of the blue after a small price reduction I had two buyers and another serious interest. I would say that at the cheaper end of the market it's true fin keel boats fetch lower prices due to cost of moorings particularly on the East Coast. The interested parties in my Sadler were all looking for a Sadler so it was a matter of fixing the price at the right level, I would suggest a Moody would be similar.

I purchased a newer (9 year old ) boat I found some had been on the market for a while and some were way overpriced and in poor condition, I was amazed at how some people present their boat to prospective buyers. In the end I found a V nice example with all the touches that assured me it had been looked after made an offer 5% below the price and bought it, happy days.

Not sure if that helps you my message is the condition and a loving feel to the boat that makes a difference buying a boat is an emotional buy it has to feel good

 

[Fimacca]

I THINK LOADS OF FOLK WANT THE MONEY BACK THEY PUT INTO THE BOAT , or they don't really want to seriously sell.
Price it right, clean it up and out, and you will sell it..........
But currently it is a buyers market due to the brilliant material we call fibreglass !

 

[theoldsalt]

Before you sell a boat you need to receive an offer. Usually before receiving an offer the boat is viewed. No viewings, no offers, no sale. Unfortunately that's the position I'm in.
People are not even phoning to enquire. The market is dead !

 

[Fimacca]

any option to trade in with a broker for something they have ? drive a hard deal maybe....never tried it myself.............

 

[Tranona]

any option to trade in with a broker for something they have ? drive a hard deal maybe....never tried it myself.............

Just done that. Not as easy as it sounds. Brokers in general do not own the boats they are selling so any part exchange will be direct with an individual owner. Easier to do it against a new boat where the dealer has a margin to work with - as I did but that option is not open to many. The boat being traded still needs to be salable for a dealer to be interested and the new boat exactly what you want.

As with part exchanging cars the only figure that really matters is the cost to change.

 

[Way]

My twopennies worth as someone who has been boat obsessed for a longish time and genuinely watching the market for the last 6 or 7yrs is the following....

-a few years ago people blamed the recession. We're now not in one so the market state cannot be blamed on that

-ive said for a while that as soon as the increasingly popular AWDs start to hit the 2nd hand market it would hit 'quality' boat second hand market further

- people are happier and happier with lighter built boats which again doesn't help 2nd hand sigmas/moodys/westerlys etc


Anecdotally as I look for my next boat I can see right now a nice Sigma 362 with nearly new engine for under 35k and a dream-like Rassy purchase (312) for around 30k. The problem isnt the market it's peoples expectations of their own boats.

My father in law commented on my Wayfarer I was selling years ago, unsuccessfully...."it will sell when its the right price". Hated hearing it, but he was right

 

[Tranona]

- people are happier and happier with lighter built boats which again doesn't help 2nd hand sigmas/moodys/westerlys etc

Just an observation about the phrase "lightly built". The 2 examples you used - Sigma 362, displacement 5600kgs, HR 312, displacement 4860kgs. My old Bavaria 37 (sort of comparable in size to the Sigma) displacement 5600kgs. New Bavaria 33 (bit bigger than the 312) displacement 5200kgs. Awful lot of ballast in an older design boat, less weight in the "boat" itself - does not necessarily mean the boat is "lightly built" - however that is defined.

Your point though is accepted. Buyers seem to have a preference for newer boats and are prepared to pay more, leading to depressed prices for older boats. Not necessarily perhaps because they are less desirable, but age is really starting to show and cheaper boats still cost the same to moor etc and arguably more to keep up to a decent standard.

 

[Way]

See what you mean re ballast etc. I guess for context I grew up with everyone around me desiring 'proper' boats...the contessa 32 for instance. Lets put aside the definition of proper boat. But people wanted boats that Could survive an unexpected 79 Fastnet situation. I still love/want 'proper' boats.

But fast forward 35 yrs and weather forecasters can seemingly predict the sun coming out to the nearest 2 to 3 minutes. So that element of solidity/protection against the unknown has gone a little, IMHO. And so, to me, it's not just these boats ages but the type of boats people want for their sailing needs. A contessa 32 is now 'small' with peoples wants/needs changing inside the cabin too.

Again for context when I do buy my next boat it's in the knowledge that I calculate that I've 'lost' c.50% on my 24/70 in just 3yrs. So I'm in this situation very much as well

 

[SigmaJon]

As with part exchanging cars the only figure that really matters is the cost to change.

Exactly, none of us is going to get back the money we put in, not least because 30k is worth a lot less now than it was 5 or 10 years ago. What ever anyone tells you the effects of the recession will be seen in the liesure markets for a long time. Anybody now in their 50s will not have enough money in the retirement pot to buy that yacht they have dreamed of sailing away in (final salary pensions are a thing of the past).Since the banking crisis in 2008 there is a lot less money in the system. So as Tranona says it is the cost of change that matters to me; I need to do the same level of deal buying a Moody 31 as I do selling the Sigma 36.

 

[Allan]

Many thanks again for all the positive input. It looks like the price is now fixed, despite my comments!
Hopefully the money lost on the sale will be made up on the subsequent purchase.
Allan

 

[Tranona]

Many thanks again for all the positive input. It looks like the price is now fixed, despite my comments!
Hopefully the money lost on the sale will be made up on the subsequent purchase.
Allan

That is exactly what I meant by the "cost to change". The proceeds of the sale only really matter if you would prefer money to a boat (?). If you are changing boats it is only important in relation to how much extra you need to pay to get the next boat. With a dealer part exchange like I did , that is predictable and the dealer is then faced with the problem of turning the old boat into cash. If you are selling then buying as most people do there is always that uncertainty about how much you will get for the old and how much you have to pay for the new. Most people reduce the uncertainty by selling first so they know exactly how much they have to put toward the new purchase.

 

[Allan]

Yes, it was posts about the "cost of changing" that helped me decide not to suggest she raises the price. Hopefully it will be a percentage so she will save more on the purchase. As she has dropped by so much I think it may just be a matter of getting the money back. It would be nice to find someone who is wanting to downsize!
Many thanks for all of the input.
Allan

 

[SigmaJon]

I was looking to downsize to the Moody 31, I presume your good lady doesn't want to upsize to a Sigma 36 which has already dropped by so much.

 

[Allan]

PM sent, I hope!
Allan

 

[EuanMcKenzie]

I think the point about available capital is teh most valid

Sadly younger generations have bigger mortgages and and are geared to the hilt having lived beyond their means for a long time in the hope of rising property prices.

In addition the pool of boats gets bigger and bigger with time.

we will all have to be prepared to give away our MABs at discounted prices at some point in the future to encourage their use by others or leave them to rot in boatyards until the market recovers.

Like all things the fewer buyers will pick the nicest boat at the lowest price in the most convenient location and the rest wont get a look in.

Sadly we must all now face this reality!

 

[syfuga]

I was going to start a thread along these lines, but this one will do.

We have had our boat 'on the market' in some way or other for two years now. In February two brokers recommended a more reasonable asking price, and with some reluctance, we went along with that. Six months later, we have had one hardly serious viewing. A number of sister ships are on the market: some have sold at very low prices, others like ours are still there.

I think we do have to face some serious issues. Since the 1970's the yards have been turning out plastic boats, and most of those boats are still able to float today. People's expectations have changed. Look for example at some of the enormous new Hanse's. There is a massive over-supply of boats in the market.

Then look at the demand side. People in their 'prime' - 30's and 40's - are now more likely to book an Easyjet, Ryanair or similar flight to some warm destination, in the Mediterranean, Caribbean, or further afield in the Pacific. They may charter a boat for two or three weeks, and the whole deal costs less than keeping a boat in a south coast marina in the UK for a year.

As someone has pointed out, comfy final salary pensions are a thing of the past, early retirement is not so easy to achieve, and people are working for longer whether they want to or not. So the demand for larger boats equipped for long term cruising is now more limited, while there are plenty for sale in Turkey, Cyprus or Greece.

The MD of Boatshed quoted above is putting a positive spin on the market and his services, that is what salesmen do. The reality, however, is that boats of all shapes and sizes are sticking around because there are not enough people wanting to own one.

A serious market survey would be useful to have.

 

[SigmaJon]

A lot of them, us are geared to the hilt with big mortgages not in the hope of rising prices but because the prices were high when we were looking. Houses are the same but opposite much higher prices because there are not enough but the reality is the same it is the cost of change that matters. My house price has doubled but not its relative value, trying to move would cost me twice as much as well.
I would be happy selling my once 35k boat for a pound if the replacement downsize cost me 80p.