Bav 38 et al

[Chris_Robb]

Re: Balsa core and balsa cores

I suppose this does provide some protection from the inevitable - that at some point there will be an accident and there is water ingress. I am not sure whether this system is used or not. With any structure that relies on the integrity of the Girder structure, then any delamination for what ever reason is potentially disasterous. IMHO

 

[Chris_Robb]

Re: Do we? what?

Geoff - I totally agree. The point I was making - I Think - was that each person has a different requirement for what he thinks his boat will fulfill. I just hope they are making their decisions from a good knowledge base.

We do need turnover in boats - otherwise the manufacturing industry will die, but I don't know where they are going to put them - it appears France is full, portugal full Balearics full - what aboutNew Zealand?

 

[Guest]

Re: Flat Bottoms

This is true enough... a modern lightweight canoe hull form has some problems, especially when coupled with the tendancy for fairly extreme fins (small attachment area, rather than the old IOR type 'upside down' fins) and BenJenBav's tendancies to just glue the stringer framework onto the inside of the hull.

For decent structural integrity, the stringer framework should be bonded into the hull layup, and the layup should be considerably thicker around this area. If you want to take it to the extreme, get an Arcona 400, which has an extensive stainless steel framework transferring all Keel & Rig loads!

Thing is though, if you want to go fast cheaply, then just don't run aground (and make sure your cradle's a good fit and the yardies are competant!) Hmm...

Mike

PS And where do you put a proper bilge sump on one of these things? Doh...

 

[Twister_Ken]

And where do you put a proper bilge sump on one of

Bilge sump? Why? They're waterproof aint' they?

 

[tcm]

Re: Pah!

I was going to respond in detail, but unfortunately i have a pressing appointment to take the wife to the hairdressers. Let me tell you that our test sail in a B38 was very good indeed, or would have been probabaly IF the salesman hadn't already been booked to do some shopping and then visit his wifes best friends sister's uncle's 41st nearly birthday on the same day...

 

[Twister_Ken]

Re: Pah!

Yacht salemen. They're not daft enough to actually go out in one.

 

[david_e]

Re: yacht salespeople

...don't get me going on this one!

What are hairdressers?

 

[zefender]

Re: Test sail?

You were lucky you managed to convince them of a test sail! I bought my B40 without one, having only chartered a 38 before! First time I sailed in one was when mine was handed over!

I've resisted the temptation to become embroiled again in the slightly jaded debate light vs heavy, deep bilge vs shallow bilge, fast vs slow, cheap vs ripoff, carpentry vs flat pack etc because everyone has their own ideas about what they want from a boat. We all know that there are big compromises on both sides whether its a 'smelly heavy' or a 'plastic fantanstic'. There will always be stories and gossip about modern designs simply because there are so many of them about. Conversely, despite the relative rarity of older boats, many a marina bertholder has experienced the damage caused by a longkeeled heavy crashing about because it cant go backwards properly. Before buying the Bav, wanting to check a broad spectrum of boats, I saw a nearly new Endurance 37, built by a respected British yard and the quality of the workmanship was truly appalling. Mrs Zefender thought it was utter crap, which carried some weight in Zefender Towers. Each to his own.

There is little doubt (and this months issue of YBW concurs) that Bavaria et al do produce boats of outstanding value for money and if, the compromise you are taking fits what you want a boat for, you would be mad not to buy one. Sure, there is evidence of factory fitting and a deep love of silicone filler but I'm not that bothered. You could buy some awfully smart handrails and still come out with exceptional value. And bilge pump? Great idea - buy two for £70 each and put one starboard and the other to port to collect any water on either tack! I suspect many owners of value boats will buy the standard factory boat and spend a lot of money customising them.

I've no idea whether my keel would make an unwelcome entrance into the saloon one day. I'll try to avoid it, just like any boatowner would. I tend to do the same with very bad weather and waves too.

Let's suppose that Bavaria decided to build a 'heavy'. I wonder what price it would be able to sell it for, assuming it could generate demand. I'd bet it would be a huge saving on the frankly ludicrous prices some 'trad' yards sell theirs for. All the solid mahogany in the world can't justify some of the prices charged and, as we know from plenty of other industries, handbuilt doesn't normally mean better.

Bristol Beaufighter or VW Polo? Can you compare them? I know which I'd rather own and rely on.

 

[david_e]

Re: Test sail?

What I was thinking when I read this test was; how can they do it so well, a trillion miles from the sea, and a well rounded package.

But with this product range they only reach a certain sector of the market. If they were to set about producing a 'heavier' more seakindly boat I am sure they could do it looking at the evidence of their success so far.

Not withstanding this I believe the Ben/Jen range to be ahead of them in overall value terms.

 

[Guest]

Bilge Sump...

Well, yes, they are pretty waterproof, but...

* Better fit a deep sea seal then to stop that drip from the stuffing box (though it's all saildrives nowadays, eh?).
* Oooh, need to do something to capture the flow from the hot water cistern expansion valve.
* Don't sail in the rain, take wet waterproofs below or high pressure hose the decks.
* Did you remember to route the drain on the fridge to a nice vented plastic bottle?

You too can have a pristine bilge... which is just as well if there's no flaming sump!

 

[Mirelle]

No plans to expire just yet.

Barring accidents, my long keeld heavy displacement boat, which is 15 years older than her owner, and in far better nick, will outlast him, quite comfortably.

But I believe that the answer to your question is "no", for several reasons.

Firstly, Bavaria et al understand what the modern boat buyer wants - if there was a demand for "small offshore wind eater"s (YM review description of the GRP version of the Twister) they would no doubt build them.

Second, the few who like long keeled heavy boats still have plenty to go round, because these boats last a long time.

You are certainly right - the price of the Bavaria 38 is astoundingly low, for anew boat of that size. But you can get a very nice - a really very nice - "classic plastic" or wooden heavy displacement boat of equivalent internal volume, and rather different sailing characteristics, for that money. Take a look through the brokerage adverts.

 

[zefender]

Re: Old for new

Yes, it's true, you can get an old, slow boat for the same price as a new, modern one!!

 

[Twister_Ken]

Re: Old for new

Well, your old boat could be a Sadler Barracuda or a Hustler 36, both of which regularly went into double figure speeds even with my vast weight aboard them.

So less of your 'slow', you whippersnapper, you.

 

[Mirelle]

Weight costs.....

One you start looking at heavier displacement, the cost of everything shoots up. More lead in the keel, heavier rigging to withstand the greater ultimate stability, connected to heavier chain plates, bolted with bigger bolts to bigger backing pads and connected to heaver bulkheads, heavier anchor, heavier chain, bigger windlass, heavier mast section, more material in the hull.....every single bit costs more.

 

[zefender]

Re: Old for new

Doubtless out on a trapeze then....

Not sure I meant to incude Barracuda when talking about venerable designs....

Hustler is ahem, a magazine isn't it? Certainly racey...

 

[Twister_Ken]

Re: Old for new

Hustler - very fine magazine dedicated to womem's liberation and man's enslavement! Like the Hustler yachts, it showed us many things we hadn't seen before (medical students excepted).

Hustler 36 - A Stephen Jones-designed 3/4 tonner which won a whole bunch of pots either side of 1980. Its 1/2 ton sister, the Hustler 32, was no slouch either and probably did even better in silverware terms.

 

[Mirelle]

.....the Youth of Today....

Twister, because she exploited the then current RORC Rule rather well, then Rustler for her big sister, then Hustler for the fin and skeg next stage....

The best way to get to windward is undoubtedly aboard a 747, but a very nice way to cross the North Sea or the Channel, potter along a coastline or "explore" an estuary, is aboard an elderly gaff cutter. More sailorising per £.

 

[Mr Cassandra]

Re: Test sail?

Hi have to agree my RR silver spur. heavy weight .was a load of crap compared to my light weight Mec600 But I still own and love my Jeanneau Sun Magic 44 though cheers bob t

Bob T

 

[PeterGibbs]

Re: Just looking ahead a bit..

Since June 16, 1998 boats in the EC have been subject to grading and minimum specifications. With the process of time the market will become more and more driven by such considerations, boats with certification having more marketability than others. I suppose there will always be a corner for character vessels as there is with cars, but I guess the main market will be increasingly subject to the new order. And this will become increasingly regulated.

If this is not the future of our industry, it will be an exception to the mainstream of regulation and consuer protection. Not likely is it? So the future marketability of our vessels will be increasingly dictated, not by such considerations as keel length and the quality of the cabinetry, but the regulatory structure now being erected. And safety is its watchword. Is this not where the key and profitable producers are trending? And is this not the intention?

So how does your investment stack up against this scenario? Conformist or special case?

PWG

 

[Guest]

Re: Balsa core

why should we expect a boat to last 50 years. we dont expect a car to do so. or an office building.