Are marinas a rip off?

[Guest]

Re: or monopoly?

What rubbish!! The marina operator will need to ensure that any outside crane is in proper condition and suitably insured, he has to pay for all the costs of providing appropriate access, crane hard standing and so on, whilst his heavy investment in a hoist on site is standing idle. Of course he isn't going to let Tom, Dick or Harry drive their crane on site and cause potential mayhem! I have never previously envisaged myself defending marina operators but some of the stuff on this thread is just naive and ridiculous.

 

[andyball]

Re: MDL and storage charges

fwiw, we've had our boats in a "cheap" yard/marina for 2 years now......approx £150 per m per year .....compared to maybe £320-£385 at nearby "all-tidal access" (ours is "half-tide"-HA! maybe 2hrs each side of hw) .

Having poked around /asked punters & generally been nosey at others nearby ,I'd regard the dearer ones as being much,much better value: in std. of pontoons,facilities,workmanship,lack of aggro etc etc...as well as full tidal access of course.

Not all cheaper marinas are good value- as with most things I s'pose.

Will the bitterest complainers here start selling their houses at less than current market value when the time comes, 'cos asking punters to pay full-wack is unfair or unaffordable for many people ?

 

[halcyon]

Re: MDL and storage charges

But equally the equipment is the same that container handling machine that Rubery Owen sent down to Hamble point in the 1960's to move and launch boats. The same staff have been launching boats in our local marina for 15 years using the same equipment. I pulled out 6 years ago when they charge me £127 to launch a 27 foot yacht, that included staff discount as the wife did the accounts and we knew how the charges were made up.
Just do not try to justify the marina pricing, they worked out how they were recovering the money when they spent it, be it in low charges over a long period, or high charges over a short period.
Look what you get for your money, most if not all caravan sites offer better facilities, how often do people use them, do you need them?
When Alfed Owen built Hamble point in the 60's it was a boat park, with the Travel lift to provide boat haul out, how many users want only this facility?, anyone done a survey on the pontoon around the owners? I would have thought MDL would be happy to swop people around and have no facility marinas with a night watchman at a lower cost, and high cost marinas with all the staff running around.
But someone needs to do something else this will go round and round and round.

Brian

 

[lauradee]

why?

why is my opinion any more rubbish than yours? the last resort of some one who is losing the argument is to start being rude!!
why do they have to check insurance etc?, does the gateman on hamble point check my car insurance as i enter? i can cause just as much mayhem with my car as can a crane driver!!
we live in a freeish country (if we want to start a thread on this lets talk about eroding freedom in a democracy under a Labour government) and if i want to buy a boat from a broker i expect to be able to move my boat as i want to, not to be held to ransom by a landlord!!
i mean we may as well be back in the days when we had to knuckle our foreheads to the lord of the manor !!

 

[BrendanS]

Re: why?

I would have thought that the reasons for checking insurance were fairly obvious. If a third party tradesman caused damage to your boat, and then you found that he wasn't insured and you had to claim off you insurance or repair the damage yourself, you'd be pretty furious. And quite rightly.

The same reason that marinas ask for one or two million in liability insurance before you can keep your boat there. Even launch sites for small boats are starting to ask for this cover more and more frequently.

I'm not sure about why you are not asked for proof of liability insurance when you drive your car in, maybe this is one area where the marinas own insurance will cover you, simply because asking for car insurance cover for this would faze most car insurers, or you are deemed to be covered by virtue of your standard car insurance. If they marinas have to cover it, you can be assured it will cost them more than a few pennies, alongside their already hefty premiums.

 

[ean_p]

I don't really understand all this.....is all this energy not being wasted in the wrong direction.....of course we're been fleeced...we know that but the answer is not to gripe at the likes of MDL and JW and the rest, who are only doing what all of us would do in their position...surely the answer lies more in obtaining more berths/marinas, in making local/national authorities realise that boats mean good money for local and national economies and that a plentiful supply of reasonably priced berths(of what ever scale of qualities) is the way to encourage boat ownership....hence the authorities need persuading to allow/encourage more marina development etc......then maybe we'll emmulate some of the continents better examples....you should be badgering your local councillor not your local marina MD.

 

[lauradee]

missing the point

we are doing the classic argue for the sake of argue and you have been taken in by the spin.
you are in business, you rent a yard off someone, the landlord then says that you must use his equipment to carry on your business?
i buy a boat,
i want to move my boat,
i engage a professional turn key operater to do it,
they are covered by insurance as all businesses are,
end of story.

stu

 

[BrendanS]

Re: missing the point

Its very easy to take a simple view, but the reality can often be different.

sadly not all business are. There has been a lot of press coverage recently about how many businesses are not taking out public liability insurance due to the rising cost, and how many cannot obtain coverage at all.

 

[bigmart]

Re: aw, Bigmart!

It depends on what you call stupid boat prices.

My first Boat that I could sleep on, a 24ft 4/5 berth Sailor cost me £2750 complete with all the gear I needed to sail it. I have just moved from the club where I kept it. Membership fee, Mooring Charge & Harbour Dues £197 per annum. Third party insurance £127 per annum. I have sailed it to France & the Channel Isles.

I sail in the Solent by the way.

Since I started sailing I have given up Smoking 40 per day & visiting the Pub where I used to drink an average of Four pints a day seven days a week.

Now I suspect that you can do the maths as well as I. All I am saying here is if you want it enough you will make the sacrifices neccessary.

Another point regarding the price of boating. I belong to an organisation the takes young people, from all walks of life, for One Week sailing trips in large yachts they visit ports along the South Coast, Northern France & the Channel Islands. If they do well they can bid for the opportunity to take part in the Tall Ships Race. The cost of this? Oh its massive, we charge £60 per week incuding food & all the gear needed.

Boating is not the perogative of the rich & it never should be!

As I have said many a time " I don't blame MDL for their charges. My only complaint is that they try to claim that they operate in a tottally free market which is not possible when they control a large proportion of the facilities.

Martin

 

[stubate]

yawn yawn

its the same as "everyone knows"
what press coverage, where?
youve lost the argument
stu

 

[BrendanS]

Re: yawn, yawn

I didn't give examples as the issue has been widely covered recently, including several in depth pieces on radio 4 for instance.


an example on employee liability on the BBC
http://www.businesseurope.com/cmn/viewdoc.jsp?cat=all&docid=BEP1_News_0000047151

 

[Magic_Sailor]

I agree! nm

We seem to disassociate ourselves from what we may do in business to what we expect as purchasers - the points of view are of course almost diametrically opposed.

The down side is that if we get enough marina berths to bring down the price (more berths than berthees) then we'll all moan because there are too many boats around - something most people do in the Solent already.

Supply and demand Ashley lad, supply and demand.

Magic

 

[BrendanS]

Re: yawn yawn

I've done a little research. It would seem that everyone did know (apart from those that never open a newspaper or listen to the news). Do I win now?

Here is a list of items from a wide variety of sources including mainstream UK broadsheet newspapers, London papers (Evening Standard), independent insurance body ( Biba), Downing Street [press office, regional papers (Birmingham Post), date of article in a printed newspaper, the Office of Fair Trading, and links to factsheets after the subject was covered on Radio 4. I think that proves that the subject has been comprehensively covered in a wide range of media.

There's more but I cannot be bothered to cut and paste any longer

http://www.independent.co.uk/story.jsp?story=360514

http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/news/business/articles/1263538

http://www.number-10.gov.uk/output/Page6797.asp

http://www.oft.gov.uk/Market investigations/Investigations/insurance.htm

http://www.eadt.co.uk/content/business/story.asp?datetime=31 Dec 2002 12:34&tbrand=EADOnline&tCategory=BUSINESS&category=Business News&brand=EADOnline&itemid=IPED31 Dec 2002 12:36:55:203


employer liability insurance 27.11.02 in the Financial Times

Radio 4 fact sheets after programs on the issue
http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio4/youandyours/youandyours_20030108.shtml

I've edited out the Brummie post article as the url was 6 lines long, and did strange things to the width of the page

<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1>Edited by BrendanS on 15/01/2003 17:55 (server time).</FONT></P>

 

[lauradee]

really yawning now

in the immortal words of del boy *******

 

[BrendanS]

Re: really yawning now

May I quote your own point from a few posts ago....

"why is my opinion any more rubbish than yours? the last resort of some one who is losing the argument is to start being rude!!"

I responded to one of your posts with a reasoned and rational post, in regard of the checking of insurance, with a good understanding of this area.

You responded that all companies that likely to work in and around boatyards are covered by insurance

I pointed out that many small companies are finding it hard to pay for or even obtain the necessary insurance

You responded by becoming rude, and querying my facts, and asking where the press coverage was

I gave ample examples of very recent press coverage

You were rude again.

By your own admission that "the last resort of some one who is losing the argument is to start being rude!!" you are clearly losing the debate, and should either retire gracefully..... or apologise, recoup, and re-engage this (on the whole) good natured and enjoyable debate

 

[stubate]

none so blind as those who cannot accept

a reasoned argument and dont know when to stop.