Mark-1
Well-known member
Probably safer on the boat than being driven round in a car, carried along pavements to the shops, so I don't think safety is the issue here.
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ARC Altantic crossing with baby- feasible or stupid?
- Thread starter ejbcook
- Start date
Probably safer on the boat than being driven round in a car, carried along pavements to the shops, so I don't think safety is the issue here.
D
Deleted member 36384
Guest
Until something happens. An accident at sea has the potential to have more of a negative impact than it would otherwise have if a baby was not on board. Babies cant really defend themselves. You dismiss this too easily, in my opinion and the analogy with cars and pavements is irrelevant.
Roberto
Well-known member
+1
Agree, had he/she been the second or third baby, one would know better about both what is involved in a newly born being *and* in being a parent, and make a more rational decision.
Without these two experiences I personally would not go.
Also, I would not invite on my boat a couple with a first baby for such a long trip; make sure your guestowner friends *really* know what they are up to, 15-20 days is a long period of time.
We did several weekends with our babies and my sister's ones, though pleasant, a long weekend was already too long...
FWIW we went cruising (also crossed the Atlantic) with ours at 2.5yo and a 5yo, though they were first on the boat at one week old, we waited until they were at that age to get rid of nappies, baby food, baby illnesses, piercing teeth, etc etc. totally unbalanced between pleasure and unpracticalities.
Just my opinion, all parents and children are different
best luck
Mark-1
Well-known member
Mark-1
Well-known member
Not least because the chance of cancelling last minute seems very high indeed:
"Sorry, he's been projectile vommitting after every feed for two days, it's probably just a bug but we don't want to risk setting off."
Meanwhile the First 40 has been loaded with a pallette of bio-degradable nappies, 50kgs of bio-degradable wet wipes and enough fresh water to wash clothes and bath a baby every day!
None the less I can see the benefit to the adults on the boat. It will be a lot of miserable drudgery but quite cool to be able to say at dinner parties "We took a 5 month old across the pond.".
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obmij
Active member
Don't worry - having your first baby will be adventure enough. Not that far off an ocean crossing anyway.
One hand for the baby and one hand for whatever else your doing is excellent practice for a stormy passage, as is the endless diet of one pot meals, and of course interrupted sleep. You think you've got a decent watch system going but then it's all hands on deck once again!
Plus your house will look like you've broached it, and lets not forget the vomit!
One hand for the baby and one hand for whatever else your doing is excellent practice for a stormy passage, as is the endless diet of one pot meals, and of course interrupted sleep. You think you've got a decent watch system going but then it's all hands on deck once again!
Plus your house will look like you've broached it, and lets not forget the vomit!
snooks
Active member
Our daughter was one last weekend, here is my experience of sailing with her this past year...weekend sailing, nothing longer than a few days.
First off all this stuff about crying babies, ignore it, a baby crys when it wants something, give it what it wants and it doesn't cry, be that milk, a nappy change, a cuddle, food, water, warm them up, cool them down, sing it to sleep. If you want to leave a baby to cry itself to sleep, you can, but we don't, we tried it as perceived wisdom, but the best advice was from my mate "you just have to do what feels right" and sitting there listening to a crying baby doesn't feel right.
Sailing with a young baby is easy, we took Ella sailing at 4 months (beginning of May), easy, put her in her crib (part of her pram) hang mobiles over is and leave her too it, she would sleep and wake and sleep.
The problems came when she could sit up, around the end of May (yup sorry that's 5 months), then when she was awake she wanted to sit up, not that easy on a boat, and not that safe either as the boat heals over. If she couldn't sit up she got frustrated and cried, so my wife would go down below, comfort/feed her...Therefore I'm effectively sailing the boat single handed and my wife has to be down below - not being able to see outside or enjoy sailing - with a grumpy baby. It was at this point we put a limit on the wind conditions we would go out in, no more that 20 knots, because trying to feed or move around in a bouncy boat while holding a baby when going to windward was no fun.
So this limited the amount of sailing we could do. Now from 10-12 months she started to crawl...This means we're having to look into areas where we can leave her when we're sailing as we don't want to strap her into a carseat for more than a couple of hours. A baby crawling around your feet in the cockpit isn't much fun in the Solent.
So if you stop baby arriving too early so you're doing the crossing when they are pre sitting up, then it would be easier. Obviously this isn't going to happen
Seriously though you'll be in a bigger boat, and hopefully not beating to windward. You'll have had a lot of experience getting the boat to the start of the ARC, so by then you should be able to make a judgement on whether you will be a crew member, passenger or shore support team.
You'll need some sort of awning to cover them up from the sun, Ella didn't like the sun on her face or eyes, but wanted to see what was going on.
(btw For the 4 days after Ella was born, my wife and I did a "watch system" 2 or 4 hours on, 2 or 4 hours off looking after her through the night with here usually sleeping on us for that time until she got into a rhythm of life)
Now for some pics....
First off all this stuff about crying babies, ignore it, a baby crys when it wants something, give it what it wants and it doesn't cry, be that milk, a nappy change, a cuddle, food, water, warm them up, cool them down, sing it to sleep. If you want to leave a baby to cry itself to sleep, you can, but we don't, we tried it as perceived wisdom, but the best advice was from my mate "you just have to do what feels right" and sitting there listening to a crying baby doesn't feel right.
Sailing with a young baby is easy, we took Ella sailing at 4 months (beginning of May), easy, put her in her crib (part of her pram) hang mobiles over is and leave her too it, she would sleep and wake and sleep.
The problems came when she could sit up, around the end of May (yup sorry that's 5 months), then when she was awake she wanted to sit up, not that easy on a boat, and not that safe either as the boat heals over. If she couldn't sit up she got frustrated and cried, so my wife would go down below, comfort/feed her...Therefore I'm effectively sailing the boat single handed and my wife has to be down below - not being able to see outside or enjoy sailing - with a grumpy baby. It was at this point we put a limit on the wind conditions we would go out in, no more that 20 knots, because trying to feed or move around in a bouncy boat while holding a baby when going to windward was no fun.
So this limited the amount of sailing we could do. Now from 10-12 months she started to crawl...This means we're having to look into areas where we can leave her when we're sailing as we don't want to strap her into a carseat for more than a couple of hours. A baby crawling around your feet in the cockpit isn't much fun in the Solent.
So if you stop baby arriving too early so you're doing the crossing when they are pre sitting up, then it would be easier.
Obviously this isn't going to happenSeriously though you'll be in a bigger boat, and hopefully not beating to windward. You'll have had a lot of experience getting the boat to the start of the ARC, so by then you should be able to make a judgement on whether you will be a crew member, passenger or shore support team.
You'll need some sort of awning to cover them up from the sun, Ella didn't like the sun on her face or eyes, but wanted to see what was going on.
(btw For the 4 days after Ella was born, my wife and I did a "watch system" 2 or 4 hours on, 2 or 4 hours off looking after her through the night with here usually sleeping on us for that time until she got into a rhythm of life)
Now for some pics....
Mark-1
Well-known member
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jonic
Well-known member
Wise words from Snooks there.
We set off without kids, crossed the Atlantic and then discovered baby number 1 was coming.
So we came home and had him in the UK with the intention of carrying on.
However a hurricane wrecked the boat so we had to claim the insurance and start again this side of the pond.
After much deliberation we decided to ship the boat and fly across with baby.
We then cruised 1000's of miles through the Caribbean and USA with him, and subsequently his brother, but never more than two nights on passage without a break.
It's doable, but tiring as you don't get to rest enough even with a good watch system, but for us being well offshore if the baby had a medical issue was too much of a risk.
I do know couples who have done Ocean passages with babies, and it certainly can be done, but you have to weigh up the risk factor and the fact that if it goes wrong you are a long distance and time from help.
We set off without kids, crossed the Atlantic and then discovered baby number 1 was coming.
So we came home and had him in the UK with the intention of carrying on.
However a hurricane wrecked the boat so we had to claim the insurance and start again this side of the pond.
After much deliberation we decided to ship the boat and fly across with baby.
We then cruised 1000's of miles through the Caribbean and USA with him, and subsequently his brother, but never more than two nights on passage without a break.
It's doable, but tiring as you don't get to rest enough even with a good watch system, but for us being well offshore if the baby had a medical issue was too much of a risk.
I do know couples who have done Ocean passages with babies, and it certainly can be done, but you have to weigh up the risk factor and the fact that if it goes wrong you are a long distance and time from help.
jonic
Well-known member
Mark-1
Well-known member
Same age here too
If you'd told me 15 months ago I'd consider a picture of a baby worth looking at I wouldn't have believed it.
My daughter brought on a big change. chinita
Well-known member
We had our baby whilst living aboard in Spain.
When he was six weeks old we set of on a two day passage to Gib; very comfortable 46ft steel ketch.
After about 12 hours things were not going well; he was sick and very listless. We worried that he was dehydrating.
We turned around and stayed firm on the pontoon for another year.
I think if that had happened to us two days out of the Canaries on an Atlantic crossing with return difficult, if not impossible, I would be in a state of panic.
Call me chicken but I would not take a child long distance until it was able to communicate verbally with me.
When he was six weeks old we set of on a two day passage to Gib; very comfortable 46ft steel ketch.
After about 12 hours things were not going well; he was sick and very listless. We worried that he was dehydrating.
We turned around and stayed firm on the pontoon for another year.
I think if that had happened to us two days out of the Canaries on an Atlantic crossing with return difficult, if not impossible, I would be in a state of panic.
Call me chicken but I would not take a child long distance until it was able to communicate verbally with me.
zefender
Active member
Tricky one..
Taking a baby on a two week cruise is fine. We've done it but this was only in the Med - we requisitioned the forepeak and put a 'travel cot' in there and cushioned everywhere. On the Arc, you'll take a bit longer but obviously it'll be non-stop. As you're both doctors, I assume you can sort the most likely medical problems but I'd still worry about the tiny chance of needing more complex help. Plenty of kids go on the ARC and some babies have too. But these are mostly on larger boats I think.
There'll be 4 four crew (excluding the littl'un) but really this means 3 or maybe 3 and a half because babies, even 5 months old ones, have a tendancy not to follow watch patterns in terms of their sleep/feeding/'changes'. Do your friends recognise how they will need to adapt? The watches might need to be very flexible which can get very tiring after say 10 days (I've done the ARC in a 40 footer). Have they had children? Do they try to find another seat on a plane when a parent & baby sits in front of them just before take off? With a bene 40.7, they may be interested in their rankings. Are they really willing to forego this and cruise more gently, maybe whispering and wearing socks at night (or whenever the baby is asleep) to keep quiet, or select a more conservative sail plan? Are they prepared to get a bimini fitted (because you'll surely need one for a baby on the ARC)? And a watermaker? Are they prepared to line a cabin all round with squishy soft cushioning in case of bounces? 5 months gets you in or close to likely teething pains. It could be far from the quiet ocean cruise they may have imagined!
I think I would plan say a week's cruise with your friends, say in August (I assume by September they'd need to be in Canaries, so maybe one of the hops from UK down south might work). You may all need to agree an honesty 'no guilt' moment and your friends might need a plan b to call at the last minute.
I'm tempted to say 'go for it' regardless but I think the boat and your friends might be the weak links. In my experience the amount of stuff needed to cram into a car for a baby, even for a weekend, is immense. It could be very tight. On the other hand, most of the ARC passage will probably be pretty gentle.
A baby is THE priority. On a long distance passage though, it can't be the sole focus as you need to press on really. That's when it could get tricky. I love babies and children but, if I was honest and was the skipper, I don't think I would agree. They must be very fab friends.
Taking a baby on a two week cruise is fine. We've done it but this was only in the Med - we requisitioned the forepeak and put a 'travel cot' in there and cushioned everywhere. On the Arc, you'll take a bit longer but obviously it'll be non-stop. As you're both doctors, I assume you can sort the most likely medical problems but I'd still worry about the tiny chance of needing more complex help. Plenty of kids go on the ARC and some babies have too. But these are mostly on larger boats I think.
There'll be 4 four crew (excluding the littl'un) but really this means 3 or maybe 3 and a half because babies, even 5 months old ones, have a tendancy not to follow watch patterns in terms of their sleep/feeding/'changes'. Do your friends recognise how they will need to adapt? The watches might need to be very flexible which can get very tiring after say 10 days (I've done the ARC in a 40 footer). Have they had children? Do they try to find another seat on a plane when a parent & baby sits in front of them just before take off? With a bene 40.7, they may be interested in their rankings. Are they really willing to forego this and cruise more gently, maybe whispering and wearing socks at night (or whenever the baby is asleep) to keep quiet, or select a more conservative sail plan? Are they prepared to get a bimini fitted (because you'll surely need one for a baby on the ARC)? And a watermaker? Are they prepared to line a cabin all round with squishy soft cushioning in case of bounces? 5 months gets you in or close to likely teething pains. It could be far from the quiet ocean cruise they may have imagined!
I think I would plan say a week's cruise with your friends, say in August (I assume by September they'd need to be in Canaries, so maybe one of the hops from UK down south might work). You may all need to agree an honesty 'no guilt' moment and your friends might need a plan b to call at the last minute.
I'm tempted to say 'go for it' regardless but I think the boat and your friends might be the weak links. In my experience the amount of stuff needed to cram into a car for a baby, even for a weekend, is immense. It could be very tight. On the other hand, most of the ARC passage will probably be pretty gentle.
A baby is THE priority. On a long distance passage though, it can't be the sole focus as you need to press on really. That's when it could get tricky. I love babies and children but, if I was honest and was the skipper, I don't think I would agree. They must be very fab friends.
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lw395
Well-known member
Somebody, I think perhaps Peter Blake(?????) did a passage to Oz or NZ with a young baby and wrote about it in a book.
I think the boat was big enough to have a washing machine.
It's not a book I have, so I suspect it's in the Portsmouth Library system somewhere?
I think the boat was big enough to have a washing machine.
It's not a book I have, so I suspect it's in the Portsmouth Library system somewhere?
Skylark
Well-known member
I've never had kids (not sure if that qualifies or disqualifies me from comment) but if I was the skipper responsible for the safety and wellbeing of the vessel and her crew I'd politely but firmly say "no".
Why take the risk. You can do the crossing another year.
Why take the risk. You can do the crossing another year.
snowleopard
Active member
We met an Australian couple who were half way through a circumnavigation. The wife had realised she was pregnant while crossing the Indian Ocean. They already had a toddler. They stayed in the UK for IIRC 18 months for the birth etc then set off again and seemed to be coping fine.
My concern would be the length of time to get medical help if you are worried about the baby. You can assume that once you are 24 hours outside Las Palmas there is no way back - beating into F6+ trade winds is really unpleasant. The time to get a ship with a doctor on board to your vicinity could be up to 3 days. The question is - are you prepared to take the risk? And how would you feel ever afterwards if he/she developed a serious medical condition which went untreated because of your location resulting in death or disability?
My concern would be the length of time to get medical help if you are worried about the baby. You can assume that once you are 24 hours outside Las Palmas there is no way back - beating into F6+ trade winds is really unpleasant. The time to get a ship with a doctor on board to your vicinity could be up to 3 days. The question is - are you prepared to take the risk? And how would you feel ever afterwards if he/she developed a serious medical condition which went untreated because of your location resulting in death or disability?
Mark-1
Well-known member
The OP is a doctor so will be able to assess medical risk better than us - so probably the medical side has been considered. Out of 10 NCT babies in our group 4 have been in hospital for one reason or another. None would have died without hospital treatment, IME most medial attention to babies is due to cautious GPs who rightly won't take chances with a patient who can't talk. So based on that and the fact that two doctors are considering it, I don't think this baby is likely to become seriously ill/die during the trip.
I think the real issue is the baby's development and happiness.
Is four weeks on a First 40 in any way as much fun or as "educational" for a baby as Swimming lesson; Mother and Toddler Groups; a big flat area to roll or crawl on; push chair walks and the hundreds of other activites that give a 5 month old's life meaning.
So if you take the risk out, if you take the inconvinence to the parents and crew out you're still left with the fact that a First 40 is not a good place for a baby to experiment with mobility & satisfy its endless curiosity about everything. For a 5 month old 4 weeks is an eternity.
If confining a 5 month old to a 40 foot rocking space filled with obstructions for a month was good for her/him, wouldn't we all do it?
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snowleopard
Active member
I believe the ARC has an option to slip a year with little financial loss. We did that when our build went slower than planned.
Mark-1
Well-known member
I reckon than confining a 17 month old on a 40 boat for 4 solid weeks might be even more unfair. As far as I can tell from 12 months old onwards (11 in our case) the principle joy in a baby's life comes from running around.
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clyst
Well-known member
I think you would be selfish to burden the rest of the crew ,of which you would be nothing but a passenger, with the crying of a baby during the day and probably night with no chance of escape from the noise . Its not a day trip you will be on . Do you really think the skipper welcomes a five month old helpless baby onboard for extended periods ? If you do ask him again when he has endured baby crying whilst trying to sleep after a cold rainy watch . All in MHO of course .
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