Shrimper 19 for channel crossing

[srm]

The interesting thing with the open Drascombes is that they don't capsize like most dinghies when over pressed. They just put the lee rail under and fill. or at least that was my experience when racing the Longboat amongst a fleet of small yachts. Got caught during a tack by a squall. The foam buoyancy is under the side seats so they remain stable. Filled my boots with sea water but otherwise remained dry.

 

[johnalison]

If you want to go offshore there is no substitute for waterline length, the longer the better. Small boats tend to get stuck between the waves that a longer boat will ride over giving faster and more comfortable passages. The smallest cruising boat I have owned was 29ft, and it was easy to handle. I then moved up to 42ft, this took a bit more fore thought in confined spaces but was still easy to handle. Both had hank on headsails and I sailed both single handed with the aid of wind vane steering. I have also sailed on smaller "cruising" boats so have something to compare with. I managed to get a day sail out on the Clyde once, the skipper asked me if I had sailed on a cruising boat before. Without thinking I said "Yes, but its a long time since I have been on one so small".

I am not suggesting that the OP goes for a 42 ft boat, just wanting to reinforce the other suggestions that a longer boat will be more suitable for the ideas discussed, both for passage making and stay aboard comfort.

With the requirement for shallow draft and taking the bottom I had a lot of fun with a small Prout catamaran. It was easy to sail in confined spaces under the big headsail, could be safely sailed into shallow water until the keels met the bottom, made offshore and coastal passages the length of the UK, and was very comfortable to live aboard for extended lengths of time.

Even your 29' boat is outside the range of what the OP is looking at, though we agree on the importance of waterline length. The smallest cabin yacht I've owned was a 22' Cirrus, which is a perfectly capable boat but its fin keel doesn't fit the need. There is no boat too small to do what he want, in theory, and people have cruised (happily?) in dinghies. Along with some others, I think that the Shrimper is not cut out for the proposed cruise, though it would be in its element in the Waddensee.

If I were young enough, I would be happy to take any decent boat in the 22-24' range but would want to take shorter legs such as Ramsgate-Ostend and take my time working my way along, rather than have to cope with the navigation, shipping, wind farms and tiredness of the longer crossings such as Harwich-Flushing, which would be the milk run for a 30-footer.

 

[Pontyfraq]

Even your 29' boat is outside the range of what the OP is looking at, though we agree on the importance of waterline length. The smallest cabin yacht I've owned was a 22' Cirrus, which is a perfectly capable boat but its fin keel doesn't fit the need. There is no boat too small to do what he want, in theory, and people have cruised (happily?) in dinghies. Along with some others, I think that the Shrimper is not cut out for the proposed cruise, though it would be in its element in the Waddensee.

If I were young enough, I would be happy to take any decent boat in the 22-24' range but would want to take shorter legs such as Ramsgate-Ostend and take my time working my way along, rather than have to cope with the navigation, shipping, wind farms and tiredness of the longer crossings such as Harwich-Flushing, which would be the milk run for a 30-footer.

Thanks - this all appeals, and time is no factor for me. I’m youngish (40 - does that count?) and up for an adventure. What makes you say the shrimper would t be suitable? Or do you mean not suitable for the Harwich-Flushing crossing .

 

[Tranona]

Thanks - this all appeals, and time is no factor for me. I’m youngish (40 - does that count?) and up for an adventure. What makes you say the shrimper would t be suitable? Or do you mean not suitable for the Harwich-Flushing crossing .

It is fair to say that while small boats like the Shrimper are capable of undertaking open water passages, but to use your own term "adventure" applies in spades. It is a bit of a myth that smaller boats are easier to handle than larger ones. Many of the Shrimpers in our club are owned by mature folks downsizing from larger cruising boats. One of them was watching me berth my Bavaria 33 on my own and commented that it looked far less hassle than his Shrimper and how he missed the more stable and predictable 32 footer he used to have. Shrimpers are "busy" boats - lots of bits of string to pull, cluttered when raising and lowering sail and cramped below. If you like that style then the jump to a Crabber 22 or 24 is massive in terms of space and a stable platform to work from. You might also look at the Cape Cutter 19 which is much better sailing boat of similar size and money. Not so many around as they came in after the Shrimper had established a hold on the market so lack the social standing of the Shrimper. apolloduck.com/boat/cape-cutter-19-for-sale/748337

As previous posts have shown there is an enormous choice of different types of boat that are suitable for coastal sailing and the odd open water passage, but few have that "character" appeal. If that is what attracts you then it is a pretty safe bet buying a Shrimper. Inboards are available around £20k and for this you get a "modern" boat in the sense that it will have been built this century whereas most other suggestions will likely be 30 or 40 years old. Give it a go and if you find you can't get on with it relatively easy to sell on with little or no loss in value.

 

[srm]

Even your 29' boat is outside the range of what the OP is looking at, though we agree on the importance of waterline length.

Agreed. As well as waterline length I was trying to illustrate that small does not necessarily equate to easier to handle. As @Tranona points out above a bigger, more stable, boat can be a lot easier to manage than a small bouncy one, both in harbour and offshore.

 

[Daydream believer]

I spent 10 days on my father's silhouette with my mate, but at 15 years of age it is not a problem. They have crossed the channel more than once. But it can only be considered considerably hard work, as can any small boat. That is why I suggested the 25.5 which would eat the journey due to its speed. I still think that for cheap long distance cruising a centaur has to be hard to beat. You know that they work, because so many were built & some are still sailing long cruises

 

[Wansworth]

 

[johnalison]

Thanks - this all appeals, and time is no factor for me. I’m youngish (40 - does that count?) and up for an adventure. What makes you say the shrimper would t be suitable? Or do you mean not suitable for the Harwich-Flushing crossing .

40 counts as juvenile in this forum. Along with others, I am more than double that. I am not particularly robust but crossings in our 34-footer were routine until a few years ago. It’s not the fact that I couldn’t do it now that puts me off the Shrimper, just its short length and what I would call bounciness. I sailed in a friend’s boat a little larger last year and was surprised at how she reacted to waves close inshore that would have been just ripples to my larger boat. Unless you have faced it, the open sea is very different to inshore sailing, though in many ways very rewarding. With a Shrimper you would be restricted to a very modest weather window, almost entirely ruling out anything ahead of the beam. Even inshore, quite nasty seas can build up, and the area off Zeebrugge can be particularly difficult.

 

[B27]

When it comes to cheapness, the smaller boats can score overall, because of cheaper moorings, but also hauling out, launching, mast stepping and lowering and winter storage can all be DIY or refreshingly cheap.
There's a few sub-20ft boats on our river managing enjoyable sailing for very little money.
For many people, the laying up costs of something like a Centaur are significant.

The Winter just gone, I was quite jealous of a couple who put their 20ft boat in a barn for a bit of maintenance!

 

[ridgy]

I suggest that you try and spend a weekend on a similar size boat and see how you get on. A boat that size has nowhere to put anything. Liferaft? Don't think so. Lack of standing headroom will have your back moaning in no time.

Honestly, it's a fantasy. Get something bigger. Plenty more adventure to be had on a bigger boat on your own.

Sailing long ways on boats that size is for broke students and beardie weirdies.

In my 20s I had a hurley 22 that I sailed a bit single handed, Wales to Dublin and Isle of man that sort of thing. It was all I could afford then but after three years of saving more I went to a 29 footer and being able to stand up made it a pleasure rather than an ordeal.

 

[Pontyfraq]

I suggest that you try and spend a weekend on a similar size boat and see how you get on. A boat that size has nowhere to put anything. Liferaft? Don't think so. Lack of standing headroom will have your back moaning in no time.

Honestly, it's a fantasy. Get something bigger. Plenty more adventure to be had on a bigger boat on your own.

Sailing long ways on boats that size is for broke students and beardie weirdies.

In my 20s I had a hurley 22 that I sailed a bit single handed, Wales to Dublin and Isle of man that sort of thing. It was all I could afford then but after three years of saving more I went to a 29 footer and being able to stand up made it a pleasure rather than an ordeal.

That’s a good call. I may be on the edge of beardie weardie tho, tbh. I’m often tempted by roger barnes’s (dinghy cruising) philosophy. I may have given the impression I want to do regular crossings - really, I think I just want it to be an option. Of course as you’ve all pointed out it is an option in pretty much any boat.

 

[doug748]

On Ebay right now there are about 5 alternatives, some with trailers, available for very modest money. As someone has already pointed out, you tend to get good value if you are not fixated by any particular boat type. Here is one taster:

Sailing boat yacht Freedom 21 with road trailer - new boat forces sale | eBay

Bit out there, short of an engine but might appeal to a dinghy sailor.

.

 

[Wansworth]

That’s a good call. I may be on the edge of beardie weardie tho, tbh. I’m often tempted by roger barnes’s (dinghy cruising) philosophy. I may have given the impression I want to do regular crossings - really, I think I just want it to be an option. Of course as you’ve all pointed out it is an option in pretty much any boat.

Rodger Barns philosophy is excellent ,once you take the step to a bigger boat the whole show changes,as Isaid in previous post acocpitcover that links up with the sparky hood changes the game……probably many of us are breardy weir dies but keep it quiet

 

[MisterBaxter]

On Ebay right now there are about 5 alternatives, some with trailers, available for very modest money. As someone has already pointed out, you tend to get good value if you are not fixated by any particular boat type. Here is one taster:

Sailing boat yacht Freedom 21 with road trailer - new boat forces sale | eBay

Bit out there, short of an engine but might appeal to a dinghy sailor.

.

I used to have a Freedom 21 and it was a fun boat in many ways but I wouldn't choose it for any kind of longer offshore passage - too light, too tender, too twitchy (although it would sail itself on a close reach). Possibly the fin keel model would be ok, if it had a carbon mast, but the twin keel with a (heavy) alumininum mast lacked power to carry sail in stronger winds.
That said, it was great fun off the wind - the Hoyt gunmount spinnaker made it possible to fly a spinnaker single handed, and with two of us on board I topped 12 knots on several occasions. Possibly you could pick your weather and zip over the channel at 8-9 knots...

 

[LittleSister]

The smallest cabin yacht I've owned was a 22' Cirrus, which is a perfectly capable boat but its fin keel doesn't fit the need.

But from the same stable the Westerly Pageant 23' bilge keeler (the smaller sister to the Centaur) could certainly be a contender.

Much more room and more generally suitable for cruising than the Shrimper, in my view, even if not so pretty, and cheaper, too..

 

[Sea Change]

But from the same stable the Westerly Pageant 23' bilge keeler (the smaller sister to the Centaur) could certainly be a contender.

Much more room and more generally suitable for cruising than the Shrimper, in my view, even if not so pretty, and cheaper, too..

Or the Leisure 23 which offers similar accommodation.

I'll put in an honourable mention for the Albin Vega too, slightly less accommodation than the Centaur but no keel issues and they sail better. They built nearly twice as man, so clearly the formula worked. You can get a passable example for £5k.

 

[mrming]

For a small boat with a bit more comfort but still a slightly more interesting rig, how about the Hunter Minstrel? Outboard in a well rather than inboard so for the optional channel crossing you would need to pack a few fuel cans. The rest of the time, however, it would be a compact but comfortable coastal cruiser with character. The looks of the coachroof are a bit challenging, but that’s the compromise for the accommodation.

 

[Daydream believer]

There's a few sub-20ft boats on our river managing enjoyable sailing for very little money.

That can be OK if your sailing aspirations are low. At our club we have a few small boats that the owners enjoy sailing up & down the River Blackwater. However, they view the Bradwell Power station at the estuary entrance, as we on earth view the moon. -- They have never seen the other side
I suspect that the OP may actually want to go a little further & for longer. That is where he needs to think carefully if he wants some " kinky & charming", or something that will actually meet his needs.

 

[ProDave]

If you are looking for nominations for a small cruising boat I have to mention the hunter Horizon 23.

We bought ours last year after having looked at several small cruising boats. The key features were a proper 4 berth boat, with standing head room, a proper separate heads compartment with a sea toilet, and a small galley with a gimballed 2 burner stove. Twin bilge keels draws about 0.9 metres, and sails pretty well.

One of the many boats we looked at was a Hunter Minstrel 23. A lot more money and only 3 berths , only sitting headroom, a porta potti toilet, and a single burner portable gas cooker.

Clearly budget is not the limiting factor here if you are considering a Shrimper or similar, as lots of people have said for less money you will get a larger, better cruising boat. Just go and look at everything for sale close to you and view them with an open mind. We ruled several out after viewing either because of the lack of headroom, poor layout or just poor condition.

 

[srm]

I don't know the OP's budget, however a quick look for used Shrimpers showed asking prices ranging from £25K to £60K. My preference within that price range would be for something around 26 to 30 ft. Not a dinghy sailing experience with a boat of that size but it gives reasonable accommodation and seaworthiness. Also, such a boat will be no more difficult to sail single handed than the smaller ones, and probably easier than some.