An eventful journey from Southampton to Chatham

[dunedin]

Have any complainers looked at how much traffic there is in the area the OP sailed through? All the foot hopping about a packed dense traffic area is nonsense. Yeah, one thing I do before sailing is research, passage planning, whatever you want to call it. The same, really applies to making posts without checking facts, don't you think?

What I cannot understand is why choosing to sail on when very tired rather than anchor / kedge for a few hours (or go into one of the safe havens). Confidence in and willingness to anchor for a rest is a key part of “experience” / seamanship IMHO, and seafarers - eg barge masters - have kedged to await a tide along that route for hundreds of years. I appreciate that going into harbour with a failed engine may be tricky, but anchoring under sail should be a core skill for embarking on any extended trip.
We all make mistakes and errors of judgement, particularly when tired - but IMHO it is a key thing to be able to reflect and admit to yourself when made mistakes, to try to learn in future. I have made many errors, but I am not proud of them - and on the other side, very pleased to have often changed plans to go somewhere different or stop sooner when Plan A isn’t working.
(And personally I wouldn’t publicise if I had chosen to sail 36 hours / 174 miles when very tired and asleep when my insurance only covers up to 24 hours, as they will know the boat and may consider this taking the p… come renewal time. But each to their own)

 

[capnsensible]

I've read every comment. I agree with some, disagree with others. Fair one.

All I can say now is that's there's them what do and them what talks.....

Let's hope all your decisions at sea have a happy ending like the op.

 

[AngusMcDoon]

.

 

[DFL1010]

I've read every comment. I agree with some, disagree with others. Fair one.

All I can say now is that's there's them what do and them what talks.....

Let's hope all your decisions at sea have a happy ending like the op.

There's also them that both.

TBH your implication that those that criticise are merely armchair sailors and thus unworthy of commenting is as unhelpful as it is surprising, coming from someone who teaches sailing.

Oh and just because the outcome was good, doesn't necessarily mean the decision was good.

 

[sailingmartin]

All I can say now is that's there's them what do and them what talks.....

Why do those who think they have sailed further than everyone else and are therefore more competent than everyone else react so badly to people who just happen not to agree with them? Accusing such critics as being “armchair“ sailors or “them that talks“ is insulting.

 

[AngusMcDoon]

All I can say now is that's there's them what do and them what talks.....

Are you aiming that at me again? Come on, be brave, let me know. It's beginning to look like ad hominen is your modus operandi, which is strange behaviour coming from a supposed sailing instructor, as is condoning illegal behaviour - IRPCS are part of UK law courtesy of the Merchant Shipping (Watercraft) 2023 Order, and now apply to everyone within the 12 mile limit. Magistrate's courts have a reputation for imposing eye wateringly high fines on transgressing pleasure craft...

Skipper fined £20,000 for TSS violation - Practical Boat Owner

If you're not up to date with the latest legislation introduced earlier this year perhaps you should do a bit of research and update your teaching syllabus.

Oh look, here are 2 individuals fined £10,000 and £6,000 for not keeping a proper lookout...

https://assets.publishing.service.g...915d74e33fa2cc/Final_Compiled_report_2015.pdf

 

[steveeasy]

What is more concerning here is the attitude shown towards like minded sailors. The errors here are nothing to do with fuel and sleep.
If you wanted to pick a fight then a few of you could not have done a better job. And I was worried about doing a sailing course with a few like minded souls. No chance in that if this is anything to go by.

Steveeasy

 

[capnsensible]

Are you aiming that at me again? Come on, be brave, let me know. It's beginning to look like ad hominen is your modus operandi, which is strange behaviour coming from a supposed sailing instructor, as is condoning illegal behaviour - IRPCS are part of UK law courtesy of the Merchant Shipping (Watercraft) 2023 Order, and apply to everyone within the 12 mile limit. South coast magistrate's course have a reputation for imposing eye wateringly high fines on transgressing pleasure craft...

Skipper fined £20,000 for TSS violation - Practical Boat Owner

If you're not up to date with the latest legislation introduced earlier this year perhaps you should do a bit of research and update your teaching syllabus.

There are a few of you that seem to be determined to make things up. That's got nothing to do with sailing experience, it's the wading in with.....nonsense. What on earth has the Traffic Separation Scheme got to do with it? You are proving the point how people are jumping in without, perhaps, understanding the op.

Well to all those that are firing the flak, I remain onside with the Man In The Arena.

 

[AngusMcDoon]

There are a few of you that seem to be determined to make things up. That's got nothing to do with sailing experience, it's the wading in with.....nonsense. What on earth has the Traffic Separation Scheme got to do with it? You are proving the point how people are jumping in without, perhaps, understanding the op.

Well to all those that are firing the flak, I remain onside with the Man In The Arena.

The point of the PBO link is that pleasure vessels get fined large amounts by magistrate's courts. That was obvious by the preceding sentence. Are the subsequent 2 linked cases of individuals fined thousands of pounds in cases brought by the MCA for failing to keep a good lookout suitable evidence that what you are condoning is illegal and may lead to large fines? Before you jump in shouting about their relevance, they were brought against fishing vessels, but the new legislation has not been in place long enough for any prosecutions under it yet. However, the point of the new legislation is to clarify that small and pleasure craft are subject by law to the rules.

Have you read the impact of the Merchant Shipping (Watercraft) 2023 Order and how it clarifies that the IRPCS are law that applies to all of us? There is no getting away from the fact that you are condoning an illegal activity, which coming from a sailing instructor, is absolutely bizarre. I can understand the OP not knowing, but not you.

 

[capnsensible]

What is more concerning here is the attitude shown towards like minded sailors. The errors here are nothing to do with fuel and sleep.
If you wanted to pick a fight then a few of you could not have done a better job. And I was worried about doing a sailing course with a few like minded souls. No chance in that if this is anything to go by.

Steveeasy

There are very few sailors in real life that go all knee jerky. Most are adaptable, calm and able to make effective decisions under pressure that keeps them, their vessel, their crew.....and other boats around them safe. Most will also behave somewhat diferently in real life than when they want to get all critical of a fellow sailor on an Internet chat forum. Bit surprising, but that appears to be modern life.

I would suggest you get out there with those like minded people and learn how to relax and enjoy bobbing about on the Briney. I do!

 

[capnsensible]

The point of the PBO link is that pleasure vessels get fined large amounts by magistrate's courts. That was obvious by the preceding sentence. Are the subsequent 2 linked cases of individuals fined thousands of pounds in cases brought by the MCA for failing to keep a good lookout suitable evidence that what you are condoning is illegal and may lead to large fines? Before you jump in shouting about their relevance, they were brought against fishing vessels, but the new legislation has not been in place long enough for any prosecutions under it yet. However, the point of the new legislation is to clarify that small and pleasure craft are subject by law to the rules.

Have you read the impact of the Merchant Shipping (Watercraft) 2023 Order and how it clarifies that the IRPCS are law that applies to all of us? There is no getting away from the fact that you are condoning an illegal activity, which coming from a sailing instructor, is absolutely bizarre. I can understand the OP not knowing, but not you.

Molehill to mountain in 89 posts. Well done.

 

[steveeasy]

There are a few of you that seem to be determined to make things up. That's got nothing to do with sailing experience, it's the wading in with.....nonsense. What on earth has the Traffic Separation Scheme got to do with it? You are proving the point how people are jumping in without, perhaps, understanding the op.

Well to all those that are firing the flak, I remain onside with the Man In The Arena.

The only thing your showing I’m afraid is poor judgement.

There are very few sailors in real life that go all knee jerky. Most are adaptable, calm and able to make effective decisions under pressure that keeps them, their vessel, their crew.....and other boats around them safe. Most will also behave somewhat diferently in real life than when they want to get all critical of a fellow sailor on an Internet chat forum. Bit surprising, but that appears to be modern life.

I would suggest you get out there with those like minded people and learn how to relax and enjoy bobbing about on the Briney. I do!

There are very few sailors in real life that go all knee jerky. Most are adaptable, calm and able to make effective decisions under pressure that keeps them, their vessel, their crew.....and other boats around them safe. Most will also behave somewhat diferently in real life than when they want to get all critical of a fellow sailor on an Internet chat forum. Bit surprising, but that appears to be modern life.

I would suggest you get out there with those like minded people and learn how to relax and enjoy bobbing about on the Briney. I do!

your attitude is quite frankly is dreadful. How dare you put people down by ability and experiance. You’d do well to re educate yourself before you go out with people if your attitude is anything like your showing here.

Steveeasy

 

[AngusMcDoon]

Molehill to mountain in 89 posts. Well done.

Any other of the rules you teach students that are optional to follow, are only for ships, that it will be fine because you probably won't get caught, everyone ignores anyway, are pointless, because I know best, or is it just rule 5?

 

[dunedin]

Molehill to mountain in 89 posts. Well done.

…. Deleted

 

[boomerangben]

Here we are discussing essentially the plan B Concerto had to implement. His plan A failed, he admitted why it did and I don’t think anyone would doubt he won’t learn from it. He is left in a situation with little wind, approaching darkness and approaching tiredness. We all know how dangerous being tired is. Accident reports and I learned about sailing articles etc are littered with tiredness as contributing factors. Anchoring, heaving to and even continuing on autopilot are all options all of which in my opinion are worthy when confronted with trying to enter a strange harbour some with strong tides, 24 hour traffic, no engine and fickle winds when tired. Heaving to, anchoring, kedging all leave you exposed to being run down unless you can find a place known where yachts anchor at night (not many in that part of the world).

The weather forecast was benign, the traffic conditions according to Concerto were benign, continuing when tired is never benign. Prioritising rest is IMO paramount whether single handing or as part of a crew. The legality and liability of singlehanding on long passages is of course fuzzy. Everyone knows it goes on, well known racers have collided with fishing vessels and yet no prosecutions took place (afaik). It is also not unknown for multicrewed vessel to have the crew on watch sleeping contentedly (until the skipper catches them!).

Plan B’s are by definition inferior to plan A’s. At the end of the day you have to pick the safest option available when plan A falls over. It is easy for me to imagine staying at sea is safer than trying to grope into an unknown harbour tired and with an uncertain means of propulsion.

 

[capnsensible]

Here we are discussing essentially the plan B Concerto had to implement. His plan A failed, he admitted why it did and I don’t think anyone would doubt he won’t learn from it. He is left in a situation with little wind, approaching darkness and approaching tiredness. We all know how dangerous being tired is. Accident reports and I learned about sailing articles etc are littered with tiredness as contributing factors. Anchoring, heaving to and even continuing on autopilot are all options all of which in my opinion are worthy when confronted with trying to enter a strange harbour some with strong tides, 24 hour traffic, no engine and fickle winds when tired. Heaving to, anchoring, kedging all leave you exposed to being run down unless you can find a place known where yachts anchor at night (not many in that part of the world).

The weather forecast was benign, the traffic conditions according to Concerto were benign, continuing when tired is never benign. Prioritising rest is IMO paramount whether single handing or as part of a crew. The legality and liability of singlehanding on long passages is of course fuzzy. Everyone knows it goes on, well known racers have collided with fishing vessels and yet no prosecutions took place (afaik). It is also not unknown for multicrewed vessel to have the crew on watch sleeping contentedly (until the skipper catches them!).

Plan B’s are by definition inferior to plan A’s. At the end of the day you have to pick the safest option available when plan A falls over. It is easy for me to imagine staying at sea is safer than trying to grope into an unknown harbour tired and with an uncertain means of propulsion.

Spot on. Dunno why some posters seem to wet their panties over it....

 

[Dutch01527]

15 minute cat naps would of been a better choice for me but I recognise everyone’s sleep patterns are different

 

[B27]

What would anchoring at Rye have been like?

 

[DFL1010]

Spot on. Dunno why some posters seem to wet their panties over it....

... yourself included.

 

[sailingmartin]

What would anchoring at Rye have been like?

Conceto said it himself in his original post:

Thinking further, I decided the best thing would be to anchor close inshore just past Dungerness.

Before changing his mind…and sailing on (slowly) while asleep.