An eventful journey from Southampton to Chatham

[boomerangben]

I hope you reflect on this before deciding to publish this voyage in any sailing magazines.
It is increasingly difficult to get insurance for responsible single handed sailing. Yacht insurers may (ie are likely to) have a different risk appetite from yours. It would be a shame if these sort of stories result in further restrictions on single handed sailing. It must be a concern hearing of people treating their policy time constraints with such complacency.

Yes I am aware that most insurers (currently - ie if we don’t abuse this) allow some flexibility in the 12 / 18 / 24 hour restriction. But earlier you reported this was a 174 mile trip. No passage plan could make that into a reasonable 24 hour voyage for a cruising boat with circa 28ft waterline. 120 miles might be considered a sensible limit to allow a safety margin (unless a racing scow).

We all make silly mistakes and errors of judgement - I make lots. Particularly when tired. Fortunately we get away with them at least 99% of the time. But it is important to admit, even to oneself, that these were errors of judgement and make sure to learn and don’t repeat.

From the insurers perspective failing to check fuel for a 100 mile plus passage would raise a few eyebrows, but most likely be accepted as an oversight (though probably would have been a less than 5 minute task, even taking the few seconds to lift the teak cockpit grating).
But failing to stop after 24 hours at any of the many harbours, or better anchoring for rest (even in fairly deep waters, kedging for a few hours with anchor light and anchor drift alarm on would surely have been possible) when admitting to be very tired, but then going on to do 174 miles might be justifiably considered as simply abusing their offer of some flexibility on the 24 hour limit.

And when going to sleep when underway, the boats that might be close to you in 2 hours time could easily be 30-40 miles away when you last checked before going to sleep. They may not even have left harbour at that time.

I fear stories like this could result in some insurers reducing the single handed time limits and/or removing the flexibility currently offered, to the detriment of the many others who need insurance for singlehanding.

I have some sympathy with the “what will the insurers think….they will want to make insuring singlehanding harder/more expensive” view of publishing such an account. To be honest, it’s a bit late given it’s on a public forum of possible publishers. But I wonder if the opposite might be true - we all know the reason for MIAB reports is to find answers why and lessons to learn, so why not “I learned about sailing from that…..” reports, enabling others to learn from the mistakes/experiences of others, thereby making the sport safer. I don’t know how insurers statistically analyse a relatively low population when in comes to yacht insurance but if their premiums are based on safety stats, wouldn’t sharing experiences result in fewer incidents and therefore cheaper insurance?

 

[NormanS]

I'm just astonished that the post was made in the first place. For so many reasons, I would have kept very quiet. But I suppose that I'm of a generation that doesn't feel the need to tell the world what I'm having for my tea.

 

[oldmanofthehills]

I have some sympathy with the “what will the insurers think….they will want to make insuring singlehanding harder/more expensive” view of publishing such an account. To be honest, it’s a bit late given it’s on a public forum of possible publishers. But I wonder if the opposite might be true - we all know the reason for MIAB reports is to find answers why and lessons to learn, so why not “I learned about sailing from that…..” reports, enabling others to learn from the mistakes/experiences of others, thereby making the sport safer. I don’t know how insurers statistically analyse a relatively low population when in comes to yacht insurance but if their premiums are based on safety stats, wouldn’t sharing experiences result in fewer incidents and therefore cheaper insurance?

I would support that idea. (Likewise in the climbing community) However does this very Forum not do a lot to share lessons?

I my rail industry we are over any incident reports or "lessons learned" like a rash even if no safety bodies get officially involved. Which is not to say we never repeat others mistakes, but at least we try not to.

 

[AngusMcDoon]

Perhaps the op is far more experienced in single handing? Seems so.

Than who? Me? Or you? Am I an armchair sailor? I'd really like to know. I wish I could sit in an armchair while sailing.

 

[dunedin]

Perhaps the op is far more experienced in single handing? Seems so.

IMHO experience would suggest not solo embarking on a distance of 174 miles and exceeding the insurance limits, or sleeping for 2 hours at a time underway in the English Channel in the dark. Many on here have done many k miles solo.

 

[capnsensible]

IMHO experience would suggest not solo embarking on a distance of 174 miles and exceeding the insurance limits, or sleeping for 2 hours at a time underway in the English Channel in the dark. Many on here have done many k miles solo.

Or being experienced enough to know that it really wasn't the problem that some here insist on jumping up and down about.....probably people who have no idea of the lack of traffic in those inshore coastal waters. Try vessel finder in the middle of the night. Perhaps some people are getting confused with the mid channel shipping lanes? Dunno. But when the op says there was no traffic, I believe him.

Is it a money thing? Are people quaking in their wellies coz they think giant insurance companies are all clamouring to read this and immediately put up everyone's insurance premium? Perhaps that's it. 'It's so wrong it's gonna cost me money!'

From what I remember of the few times I've sailed that coast is that the biggest hazard is, as always, pot markers that you can't see in the dark anyway.....

Anyway I've cast my vote firmly with the op. As you others disagree, that's entirely your absolute right.

No matter how w wrong you are.

 

[NormanS]

Or being experienced enough to know that it really wasn't the problem that some here insist on jumping up and down about.....probably people who have no idea of the lack of traffic in those inshore coastal waters. Try vessel finder in the middle of the night. Perhaps some people are getting confused with the mid channel shipping lanes? Dunno. But when the op says there was no traffic, I believe him.

Is it a money thing? Are people quaking in their wellies coz they think giant insurance companies are all clamouring to read this and immediately put up everyone's insurance premium? Perhaps that's it. 'It's so wrong it's gonna cost me money!'

From what I remember of the few times I've sailed that coast is that the biggest hazard is, as always, pot markers that you can't see in the dark anyway.....

Anyway I've cast my vote firmly with the op. As you others disagree, that's entirely your absolute right.

No matter how w wrong you are.

I hope you don't rely on everything showing up on Vessel Finder, even when you're awake.

 

[capnsensible]

I hope you don't rely on everything showing up on Vessel Finder, even when you're awake.

Of course not. It's for the armchair sailors going on about the English Channel inshore waters to understand traffic density. Or lack of. In that area.

 

[Baggywrinkle]

I will probably write it up for a magazine, which one will not be my decision. The press officer at the Cruising Association has asked me for articles and tips for publication. She will decide whether anything will appear in the CA Magazine or YM or PBO, all will still be under my name.

The drone I fly is a DJI Mini 2. It is under 250g and quite small but very powerful with a 4K video camera. I should mention this has now been superceded by the Mini 3, but this has extra sensors to help avoid collisions. Great on land but useless on a boat that is moving around. If you have not watched some of my videos on my round Britain trip, then click on https://www.youtube.com/@FulmarConcerto

There is now a Mini 4 Pro which arrived this week. Been out testing it today - it's pretty similar to fly to my Mini 2 but has obstacle avoidance which is both a blessing and a curse but the most excellent thing about it is it's ability to track moving objects - that's what I bought it for and the improved video and photo quality.

A drone is more intuitive to control if you are facing the same direction as it - basically the same way as you learn to fly model helicopters, "tail in" i.e. start standing behind it with it facing away from you until you can execute all the basic maneuvers, then go "nose in" and eventually from the side. Practice tracing boxes and figure of 8s until you are comfortable and confident.

To launch I put my drone on the swim platform facing away from the boat and simply hold the launch button, the drone goes airborne and the boat sails away from under it - then just punch it up and clear of the boat. You can also launch it from your hand standing at the back of the boat holding the drone in your palm with your other hand pressing the launch button on the controller.

Landing is quite tricky ... I land on the foredeck ... Put down a large towel or netting to stop it sliding over the side and head to the stays next to the mast on the windward side of the boat, bring the drone up parallel to the direction of travel until it is halfway between the mast and the forestay, then keeping the forward axis fixed so the drone is travelling at the same speed as the boat, slide it sideways in over the foredeck and use the other stick to descend and land. Takes a bit of practice and if motoring release the genny sheets so they don't interfere with the landing space.

Concerto might not have a big enough space on the foredeck, so the same can be done on the coachroof, but obviously the boom has to be out of the way.

In emergencies, just fly it into the bottom of a well sheeted in mainsail - the props won't damage the dacron - and let it drop into the cockpit.

Try not to do this ....

 

[dunedin]

Of course not. It's for the armchair sailors going on about the English Channel inshore waters to understand traffic density. Or lack of. In that area.

I am surprised by the Captain, who I thought was an RYA Instructor, arguing in favour of sailing on rather than anchoring or heading into harbour when solo and tired. Plus sailing for 2 hours with no lookout and breaching insurance limits. But you are entitled to your opinion (when not in an RYA instructor role)
But even more surprised by your gibe about “armchair sailors” when you have no clue as to the experience of the other contributors - and the amount of active sailing done this year, this month, this week and indeed day. That does you no credit compared to your usual contributions.

 

[oldmanofthehills]

I am surprised by the Captain, who I thought was an RYA Instructor, arguing in favour of sailing on rather than anchoring or heading into harbour when solo and tired. Plus sailing for 2 hours with no lookout and breaching insurance limits. But you are entitled to your opinion (when not in an RYA instructor role)
But even more surprised by your gibe about “armchair sailors” when you have no clue as to the experience of the other contributors - and the amount of active sailing done this year, this month, this week and indeed day. That does you no credit compared to your usual contributions.

I dont think he meant to deride folk as armchair sailors, instead that it was useful for those at home, in their chairs, to get general picture

 

[Baggywrinkle]

I am surprised by the Captain, who I thought was an RYA Instructor, arguing in favour of sailing on rather than anchoring or heading into harbour when solo and tired. Plus sailing for 2 hours with no lookout and breaching insurance limits. But you are entitled to your opinion (when not in an RYA instructor role)
But even more surprised by your gibe about “armchair sailors” when you have no clue as to the experience of the other contributors - and the amount of active sailing done this year, this month, this week and indeed day. That does you no credit compared to your usual contributions.

Armchair sailors?



... well I wouldn't mind giving it a go, looks like fun.

 

[Biggles Wader]

Armchair sailors?

View attachment 164866

... well I wouldn't mind giving it a go, looks like fun.

That should keep you awake during a long passage

 

[Concerto]

With a number of posters now complaining about not keeping a watch, I have left them to put their points of view as it is a forum for all opinions. However I now make the observation they are in the minority. My original post has now had 31 likes, which must show what I did has been respected by a large number of other sailors. When I go sailing I like to push limits to sail longer, faster, and visiting new places. Of those complaining, only 1 do know personally, and the others just hide behind their forum name and do not fill out any details on their about me page. What have you got to hide? Why not tell us about your sailing experiences and your mistakes. Or are you just armchair sailors? I await you replies so we can all then assess how you sail and can be critised in the way you have attacked me.

 

[NormanS]

Well, I suppose that not checking that you have sufficient fuel, and consequently running out, could be classed as "pushing limits", but certainly not in a responsible way.
You have made the unilateral decision to publicise your arguably irresponsible attitude to good seamanship, and now you're complaining about deserved criticism.
I would refer you back to post 62.

 

[oldmanofthehills]

When ever I hear CG setting off the RNLI to boats which have run out of fuel, I think "bloody idiot". Which is not to say I have not been a bloody fool myself at times, far from it. I am mildly surprised at Concerto lack of embarrassment about it, but maybe he just isnt declaring.

 

[capnsensible]

I am surprised by the Captain, who I thought was an RYA Instructor, arguing in favour of sailing on rather than anchoring or heading into harbour when solo and tired. Plus sailing for 2 hours with no lookout and breaching insurance limits. But you are entitled to your opinion (when not in an RYA instructor role)
But even more surprised by your gibe about “armchair sailors” when you have no clue as to the experience of the other contributors - and the amount of active sailing done this year, this month, this week and indeed day. That does you no credit compared to your usual contributions.

Have any complainers looked at how much traffic there is in the area the OP sailed through? All the foot hopping about a packed dense traffic area is nonsense. Yeah, one thing I do before sailing is research, passage planning, whatever you want to call it. The same, really applies to making posts without checking facts, don't you think?

 

[Whaup367]

I'm behind Concerto on this, and I applaud his decision to post about the experience.

I don't think it's justified to suggest he isn't embarrassed about the fuelling error: To me, it seems he is but downplays it; that's how I read post-1 and I think it was brave of him to admit his error in public. I would not have the balls to admit fault in this forum and put up with the inevitable pile-on.

It's a sailing boat with an auxiliary engine. I dare say a few folk (mostly different ones?) would have harangued him if he'd called for help "just" because he ran out of fuel.

It's clear in post-1 that he evaluated the options available with a clear head, considerable experience and knowledge of familiar waters and then made his decisions. It's helpful and informative to read the analysis and conclusions (even if you don't agree with them, or would have made different ones).

We all make mistakes; we all learn from mistakes and the best mistakes to learn from are other peoples: if they are not prepared to share them we cannot do so.
The internet (or rather, social media) is the antithesis of the No Blame Culture.

 

[Pye_End]

Have any complainers looked at how much traffic there is in the area the OP sailed through? All the foot hopping about a packed dense traffic area is nonsense. Yeah, one thing I do before sailing is research, passage planning, whatever you want to call it. The same, really applies to making posts without checking facts, don't you think?

It is an area I know reasonably well. Came out of Dover in May traveling west this year, with half a dozen other craft going in the same direction. It is a bit of a 'passage making' area. The thing about that region is that you are a bit constrained by the shipping lane on one side, and land on the other, so boats tend to make for a certain distance off the next headland in one way or another. The can also be a few angling boats or fishing boats on the way and more inshore. Whilst not dense like the Solent, and can be pretty clear, but certainly wasn't that time. But sleeping for such a long time, you are not going to be able to judge whether it was risky till you get to the other end. I just do not understand taking on that risk in that area when there were other options available. Imagine going down below and thinking that they may well now be others over the horizen also not keeping a watch as this thread may have persuaded some it is normal.

There are several aspects to the OP's account which some will find interesting for sure. It is always very satisfying not to use a diesel, and long passages invariably want them at some point. Running out of diesel was probably irritating, but we all do silly things occasionally. The situation causing loss of engine can have so many causes that hearing people still get to their destination using sails will be a comfort to some. Getting onto a pontoon single handed with sail requires thought and is not that easy. Writing it up afterwards and posting it is up to him, but I don't understand the desire to expect the same of others if they do not want to do so. It is irrelevant. This idea that the more experienced you appear on here gives the the greater right to comment - rubbish. Take the comments. Think about them. Address the comments head on and not de-value the messanger. Reject what you don't agree with, but don't criticise those for making them.

 

[B27]

Have any complainers looked at how much traffic there is in the area the OP sailed through? All the foot hopping about a packed dense traffic area is nonsense. Yeah, one thing I do before sailing is research, passage planning, whatever you want to call it. The same, really applies to making posts without checking facts, don't you think?

I've looked out the window at the club and looked at marine traffic.
There's often a lot more boats on the water than on the internet.
Many of them small, singlehanded fishing boats, motorboats driven by muppets etc.

I think you'd be rightly annoyed if an unmanned boat ran you down.

It's all completely unnecessary. Just like a car, you need to put fuel in it. Would I think someone who ran out of petrol on the motorway was an idiot? Probably. On a boat, it's a pretty basic precaution to carry a spare can of fuel.

Relying on your autopilot for an extended period close to hazards is not a trivial thing. I suspect the autopilot or electrics generally playing up and putting you on the beach is more likely than hitting another boat.

People take risks and make mistakes, learn and move on.
What annoyed me is the OP's attitude that he's so experience we should look up to him for surviving his numpty errors.

How about a fuel gauge as a winter project?