A fun bluewater boat around 40'?

[Supertramp]

Good comments already made about the rig. Given free choice I would have three headsails on furlers. When tired and solo having sensible sized sails and choices makes life easier.

No-one has really mentioned the time spent at anchor, marina or simply living aboard while the autopilot carries you onward. I find having comfortable seating on deck and easy access below without 5 or 6 step ladders makes life easier.

Agree with the comments about looking for good quality construction brands - saw a very nice Oyster 42 the other day (single wheel). Although the older designs are not sporty.

I would also look for large tanks for fuel and water. There is much comfort in knowing you can motor 1000 miles if needed and live for 2 months on your water.

 

[ashtead]

I suspect he needs a bigger boat at this rate and if seeking an oyster a larger budget. I can see if travelling long distances down wind the self tacker isn’t much use and twin headsails and twin poles as seen on larger moody or a discovery etc would be great but of course these don’t tick a number of other boxes in this search. I think the idea was to keep around 12-13m and a stern cockpit which makes the choice quite narrow as it rules out many Baltic boats plus even uk boats such as gunfleet . The challenge is wanting something not sluggish but robust but with presumably more space than current westerly. On this basis an older arcona say from early 2000s might be best compromise on basis mainsheet in cockpit is acceptable.

 

[ashtead]

Re the moody41 at Port Solent Dragonfly I don’t think it had from new the larger out headsail but might have been retro fitted. It was owned for a time by someone we used to chat to at the moody stand at Southampton boat show. It seems it might be back on market again by third owners. Below shows the twin headsails

 

[dunedin]

I don't see self tacking headsails as a benefit on long distance cruisers. Twin headsails is far more advantageous, in my opinion. You do see this set up often on long distance cruising boats a lot. Being able to furl away a large genoa and then have a smaller heavy duty headsail for working to weather, without having to leave the cockpit makes a lot of sense.

I agree entirely about this for long distance.

And indeed I don’t think a self tacking jib is generally a useful thing for short voyages short handed either. Some older boats without below deck autopilots and big 1970s / IOR era genoas are indeed difficult to tack solo. But a modern 40 footer with a 105-110% blade jib and proper autopilot is usually a dawdle to tack solo (if use the proper technique, holding the boat above close hauled on the AP to pull in the slack before dropping onto heading). Done a LOT of solo tacks up narrow Sounds in my time.
And as self tacker jibs generally lack power downwind, it often means needing to set an asymmetric - which is a lot more work solo than tacking a moderate sized jib.
A self tacker can make sense as part of a twin furler setup, with genoa on the outer and blade jib on the inner (only one used at a time upwind, not cutter) - but even then the blade jib is easy enough to tack without the self tacker.

Indeed the worst possible option is generally self tacker and in mast furling main - as most using this inefficient rig will end up motoring upwind rather than tacking anyway.

 

[Tranona]

Re the moody41 at Port Solent Dragonfly I don’t think it had from new the larger out headsail but might have been retro fitted. It was owned for a time by someone we used to chat to at the moody stand at Southampton boat show. It seems it might be back on market again by third owners. Below shows the twin headsails

Different boat, but that is how my GH will be rigged but without the self tacker on the working sail. Michael Pocock favoured that rig on a number of his later offshore designs - he wrote it up in YM a few years ago. The compelling reasons for me are that my boat has a rather small low aspect rig and the common way of getting extra sail area is to fit a large overlapping furling genoa which is a handful tacking and does nothing for windward performance unless partly furled. The new working sail will be just under 100% with an almost full hoist luff. Hopefully this combination will give flexibility including the option of twin sails offwind.

 

[papaver19]

Yes agree with all the above - self tacking no use when I am only gybing once a week. It's a poor exchange for not having control of leech tension with car position. I have a heavy-weather staysail on the Typhoon, set on a removable inner forestay and it's brilliant - I've used it a lot.

Re an earlier comment about mainsheets - I much prefer a classical mainsheet on a traveller in the cockpit (a la Typhoon). I fail to see the advantage of having to winch the damn mainsail around with the "modern" method.

 

[papaver19]

Any opinions about a Wauquiez Centurion 40S.2 (2016)? Nice looking boat, right size, but likely a bit racy and slappy, I'm thinking.

 

[fredrussell]

Do Maxi make a 40 footer? There was a Maxi 1100 up the pontoon from me that looked very well built and its owner described it as a decent blue water boat, though he himself hadn’t done any in it at the time.

Edit: how about this one, £225k so over budget but another one for the list perhaps:

New Listing - 2010-launched Maxi 1300 | Grabau International

 

[geem]

Mike Pococks ex boat the 42ft Brown Bear, is here in Ponta Degada. Had a nice chat with the current owner. He has fitted a very smart hardtop and the boat is in mint condition after a respray. Twin furlers and very ocean ready. He is off to Nova Scotia next stop. The boat looks like new.

 

[dunedin]

Any opinions about a Wauquiez Centurion 40S.2 (2016)? Nice looking boat, right size, but likely a bit racy and slappy, I'm thinking.

It’s one of the boats I mentioned in post #6. I seriously considered buying the previous version of this Waquiez Centurian 40 as on paper look a brilliant boat. Only issue at the time was there were none available secondhand and no UK demonstrator.
Chris Tibbs took one across the Atlantic
- Chris Tibbs on a dream Atlantic crossing and a heavenly Caribbean winter - Yachting World

To my mind a chunk above the current (Hanse built) Moody 41 referred to above, which I also looked at (and a different league from older boats in terms of the fun, space and pace), but would still put the Xc38 higher up still for long range performance cruising in a moderate sized boat.

 

[dunedin]

Yes agree with all the above - self tacking no use when I am only gybing once a week. It's a poor exchange for not having control of leech tension with car position. I have a heavy-weather staysail on the Typhoon, set on a removable inner forestay and it's brilliant - I've used it a lot.

Re an earlier comment about mainsheets - I much prefer a classical mainsheet on a traveller in the cockpit (a la Typhoon). I fail to see the advantage of having to winch the damn mainsail around with the "modern" method.

I ABSOLUTELY prefer the mainsheet track out of the cockpit, with the mainsheet led back to the cockpit by the helm (via a German mainsheet). A traveller across the cockpit is a no-no for me, other than a race boat.
Of the few fatalities on the ARC, I think there have been at least two caused by in cockpit mainsheets striking crew during accidental gybes (either when the preventer broke or had been freed for some reason, such as rounding up for reefing). The initial reports said he was struck by the boom, but later reports suggested it could have been the mainsheet - ARC fatality and two yachts abandoned mid-Atlantic - Practical Boat Owner
Note that one key difference between this X-Yacht and the X-Cruising version is that the Xc has the mainsheet ahead of the sprayhood / hatch to avoid this risk.

 

[papaver19]

More interesting stuff here. Yes 'dunedin', the Hanse build of the 41AC does worry me. I have mentally sidelined that one.

I did read up on the XC38 - all sounds good - but have failed to find one anywhere at the moment. Appreciate the info on the Centurion though.

We'll agree to disagree on mainsheets - I can't say that I have ever felt even slightly threatened by it.

Maxi 1100 - funny, I was debating getting one of those when I bought the Typhoon, despite it being twice the price. Lovely boats, proper lead keel etc. Quite like the look of that 1300 - shame it was listed in 2021, long gone :-(

Geem - what boat is the "Brown Bear" you mention?

 

[papaver19]

https://www.yachtworld.co.uk/yacht/2016-wauquiez-centurion-40s.2-9204348/

Yes, that was the one I was looking at - it has all the gear, though they are being coy about the sails

 

[Tranona]

Geem - what boat is the "Brown Bear" you mention?

One off but part of a small series of similar boats around 12/13m that Mike designed for himself or others in the 1990s specifically for long distance cruising. Most built of composites in Lymington. Lots of good ideas such as his rig experiments that found their way into other boats. He worked for Laurent Giles but designed under his own name as well.

Bit of a blast from the past

 

[geem]

More interesting stuff here. Yes 'dunedin', the Hanse build of the 41AC does worry me. I have mentally sidelined that one.

I did read up on the XC38 - all sounds good - but have failed to find one anywhere at the moment. Appreciate the info on the Centurion though.

We'll agree to disagree on mainsheets - I can't say that I have ever felt even slightly threatened by it.

Maxi 1100 - funny, I was debating getting one of those when I bought the Typhoon, despite it being twice the price. Lovely boats, proper lead keel etc. Quite like the look of that 1300 - shame it was listed in 2021, long gone :-(

Geem - what boat is the "Brown Bear" you mention?

It a design by Mike Pocock. See here 1999 Pocock 45 - NOW SOLD | Grabau International

This one is epoxy wood construction. Not many about but designed for ocean sailing.

 

[geem]

Here you go
New Location - 2004 MB Yachts Pocock 42 | Grabau International

 

[servus]

Hello papaver19,

You mentioned Koopmans designs as being on your menu or radar or so...

Google "Hutting 40 for sale" and check out the Hutting Brokerage site.
They have two of this type for 175.000,- and 195.000,- Euros for sale. Both early 1990ies built. New they cost something in the area of 600 to 800 thou; before tax... The newer ones are all aluminium, which one has to like.
Long keel, only 1,6m draught, 10,10 m lwl, keel hung rudder, cutter rigged sloop. Steel hulls. Displacement abt 13,5 tons.

If you want to sail long distances and not be tired by a nervous boat, if you look for high average speed, there is your boat.
I own one even a couple of years older and I love her motion in the seas, her slicing through the waves, (Don't we all think our boats are fantastic?)
Of course she is not a star close hauled but full and by she runs like a train. And surprisingly she does not need a half-gale to get moving either.
On all other points of sail she is faster than one would think, forgiving and very seakindly. A boat that looks after you.

Read up on the boat, there are tests in "Palstek", a German sailing magazine and I think also "Yacht".

I bought mine some 15 years ago privately and had no support from the boatyard but found Mr. Dick Koopmans jr. very helpful and responsive.

Hope this ticks your box.

Fair winds, G.

 

[mrming]

Another Koopmans design, I’ve always liked the Victoire 1200 for this kind of brief. They come up reasonably frequently in the Netherlands if the OP can manage the admin on that (preferably not importing to the UK).

 

[dunedin]

Yes, that was the one I was looking at - it has all the gear, though they are being coy about the sails

Apologies, I posted the wrong link in my post #50. Just edited it so it now points to the article about Chris Tibbs Waquiez Centurian 40 - which is the same generation I looked at.
Not certain of the differences with the 2016 boat, but suspect the latter is a refresh of the same basic hull. From the photos the original one had a large single wheel and enclosed transom, whereas the v2 has twin wheels (not a bad improvement, IMHO) but also a more open transom (think there were options on this).

 

[dunedin]

……..

I did read up on the XC38 - all sounds good - but have failed to find one anywhere at the moment. Appreciate the info on the Centurion though.

….

Yes Xc38 tend to be kept for long periods and rarely come on the market. Where do you want to start your cruise from - the USA ? https://www.yachtworld.co.uk/yacht/2015-x--yachts-xc-38-9105212/
Issue for use in UK and EU would be VAT depending on where resident.