90/180 and the Covid Certificate.

[st599]

Maybe I am being paranoid, but i do expect that there will be booster doses of the vaccine, which it will become a criminal offence not to have. The app doesn't only track, it also records who you have contact with and when. I wasn't aware that a paper copy could be provided, thats interesting.
Are there other vaccine certificates that also monitor and contact people to ensure they are abiding by self isolation etc?

The NHS Covid App and the NHS App with the Vaccination status are not the same - you don't have to have both.

 

[cherod]

An interesting discussion with equally valid points of view.

Long before the Covid Passport existed the authorities had the potential to track anybody and get a complete profile on them.

I anticipate that the Covid Passport will be a short lived phenomenon. Once sufficient people have got immunity from vaccination or having had Covid, just like flu, Covid will come and go but have little impact on society in general. Details of vaccinations may be included on national passports for international travel and vaccination certificates will be required for places of high risk (yellow fever etc.) - no change there.

The vulnerable will be offered a combined flu and Covid jab at the onset of winter and that will be that.

Hard to put a timescale on the life of Covid passports but I would be surprised if they were still in existence 5 years hence.

the problem is that the covid passport will morph into something probablly even worse .

 

[nortada]

Maybe I am being paranoid, but i do expect that there will be booster doses of the vaccine, which it will become a criminal offence not to have. The app doesn't only track, it also records who you have contact with and when. I wasn't aware that a paper copy could be provided, thats interesting.
Are there other vaccine certificates that also monitor and contact people to ensure they are abiding by self isolation etc?

As it is not a criminal offence to refuse the original Covid Jabs, why will it become a criminal offence not to have a booster?

To the best of my knowledge, refusing to be vaccinated has never been a criminal offence and to vaccinate somebody for early against their will could be common assault - which is a criminal offence.

Of course if to choose to remain unvaccinated, you may not be allowed to travel or participate in other activities but that would be your choice.

 

[nortada]

the problem is that the covid passport will morph into something probablly even worse .

In what way?

The tone of you message suggests that possibly you have not been vaccinated?

 

[Clancy Moped]

Bank cards, mobile phones, SSR, driving licence, the list goes on, if they want to find you they will.

 

[cherod]

As it is not a criminal offence to refuse the original Covid Jabs, why will it become a criminal offence not to have a booster?

To the best of my knowledge, refusing to be vaccinated has never been a criminal offence and to vaccinate somebody for early against their will could be common assault - which is a criminal offence.

Of course if to choose to remain unvaccinated, you may not be allowed to travel or participate in other activities but that would be your choice.

can you not see the deminishing of individual freedoms . the situation has steadily gotten worse since the first introduction of " lockdowns " . how you can term the inability to travel and involve in certain activities as " a choice " i dont understand ,,, with all due respect Mr Nortada , there are serious issues around us all which you seem to be unaware of ...these are dangerous times .

 

[cherod]

In what way?

The tone of you message suggests that possibly you have not been vaccinated?

restrictions of freedom ,, already people are being conditioned into believing that if they do not tow the party line then they are somehow being a threat to everyone ,, worrying thing is that many people are believing it .

 

[cherod]

i know many people who have not been , and never will be vaxinated,, what are you implying,, are you proving my previous post already .

 

[RobbieW]

Maybe I am being paranoid, but i do expect that there will be booster doses of the vaccine, which it will become a criminal offence not to have. The app doesn't only track, it also records who you have contact with and when. I wasn't aware that a paper copy could be provided, thats interesting.
Are there other vaccine certificates that also monitor and contact people to ensure they are abiding by self isolation etc?

There are two different apps used by NHS in the UK. One does the track'n'trace thing, the other links to health records and accesses your vaccine record. They are independent of each other

 

[Baggywrinkle]

OK svvictoria i did say I would not contribute further to this thread because i think it is subjective. However you asked a good question in wondering why I think QR-code is different. It is because it is a on-line, on the go identification system that has an immediacy to it. Bear with me, suppose a crime is committed in a certsin area. All it needs is for the authorities to access all the shops, bars, venues etc to see who was in that area at that time. They can do this with the right software. If someone is recognised as a possible suspect they have his full name to access the various data bases. This would normally be impossible to get any usefull infomation from the database unless it can be supplied with a name. They now have a name. In other words the QR-code is the glue that can bring all info on the other data bases together within seconds. They can hit the ground running. And because it is not perfect they can get it wrong. I would need a ten page essay to explain what I mean so please extrapolate. Briefly QR-code is the "The one ring that rules all and binds them".

Think on this. Every government stated completely and totally that they would NOT implement this QR-code. Every one are now peddling backwards in unison. France and Greece have even gone a step further. Sorry if you still don't understand my reasons. To me they are quite clear. This is not a Covid thing. It is a pure power grab.

If you carry a mobile phone then your whereabouts are logged by the telecoms companies. The IP address your phone is given is logged by every web site or data service you access, and also recorded by your service provider. The cellphone network knows exactly where your phone is. The point is that the authorities can't just go on a fishing trip and request all the data of who was in a certain location at a certain time - not unless there are really good grounds - like a terrorist attack, so although there is enough out there to pinpoint where every mobile phone user is at any point in time, it is only accessible to the authorities if they have reasonable grounds to suspect you committed a crime, and then they must request the data via the courts. One instance of this happening was when the music industry started hunting down people sharing music. They collected IP addresses of people uploading music by joining the sharing system themselves, and then took the list of IP addresses to the courts to request that the service providers release the names and addresses of who was using those IP addresses at the point when the "crime" was committed. They got the info.

A QR code is scanned by a pub .... the pub will then check the identity you show them with the identity thy get from scanning the code.

But .... you can print out the QR code, photograph it, mail it to someone, it can be copied multiple times and anyone who scans it gets sent to the same URL. It is not proof that you were physically there when the code was scanned. The authorities need to go to the person who scanned the code, show them a picture of you, and ask if it was you that presented the code.

What the QR code does do is stop people printing their own covid certificates - because it verifies the issuing authority too, to ensure it is a real, valid test result. The format of the codes is also published ...

There are more things to worry about than QR codes and tests/vaccinations IMO.

 

[Graham376]

If you carry a mobile phone then your whereabouts are logged by the telecoms companies. The IP address your phone is given is logged by every web site or data service you access, and also recorded by your service provider.

There are more things to worry about than QR codes and tests/vaccinations IMO.

They would have a job tracking my phone, it's rarely turned on and even when it is, it's dumb. If people are worried about data and being tracked, it's their own fault for having so much information on their phones and cloud - which I won't use either.

I don't see covid vac certificate as any different to the cholera , typhoid, yellow fever, smallpox and other ones I have carried. As far as mass inoculations, maybe many here are too young to remember polio in the 50s when swimming pools and similar venues were forced to close. Polio is no longer the serious problem it used to be and smallpox has all but disappeared.

 

[st599]

They would have a job tracking my phone, it's rarely turned on and even when it is, it's dumb.

Nope, your phone position is triangulated from the location of the cell towers that it's connected to. Can get sub 100m accuracy.

 

[cherod]

Nope, your phone position is triangulated from the location of the cell towers that it's connected to. Can get sub 100m accuracy.

i believe it is not being tracked when it is turned off .

 

[Clancy Moped]

i believe it is not being tracked when it is turned off .

Chode, your bank card tracks every move you make.

 

[cherod]

Chode, your bank card tracks every move you make.

you will have to explain that to me

 

[Clancy Moped]

you will have to explain that to me

Give your imagination a stretch.

 

[RMW124]

As it is not a criminal offence to refuse the original Covid Jabs, why will it become a criminal offence not to have a booster?

To the best of my knowledge, refusing to be vaccinated has never been a criminal offence and to vaccinate somebody for early against their will could be common assault - which is a criminal offence.

Of course if to choose to remain unvaccinated, you may not be allowed to travel or participate in other activities but that would be your choice.

I hope I am very mistaken, and proved wrong, for the sake of future generations and in respect to the countless people who gave their lives fighting in brutal wars to enable us to enjoy freedom. Despite that I honestly believe, having closely researched the issue including scrutiny of the Coronavirus Act 2020, that there will come a time when the unvaccinated will be criminalised. The offence will be along the lines of endangering public health, and it will be treated seriously. Thus, if sometime in the future, a vaccinated and registered person has doubts about the official narrative r.e the Pandemic and Vaccines, and decide against a mandatory booster, the Passport scheme in whatever electronic format could be used to identify and locate them.

I have had doubts from the start about the accuracy of the information we have all been given, not least when I realised that the govt procedure for reporting cause of death had been significantly modified immediately prior to the pandemic, and the number of deaths was being vastly inflated. I have struggled in many ways with my views not least because my father died in January 21 from complications brought on by a delay to a heart operation. After a brave fight he succumbed to pneumonia and despite having given negative COVID tests for over a month his death certificate cause is stated as C19! I fail to see how bright intelligent critical thinking persons are not asking questions? Apologies for the essay and personal statements, and I’m not looking to argue with any folk, and have the upmost respect for anybody’s personal opinion!

 

[RMW124]

dp

 

[cherod]

I hope I am very mistaken, and proved wrong, for the sake of future generations and in respect to the countless people who gave their lives fighting in brutal wars to enable us to enjoy freedom. Despite that I honestly believe, having closely researched the issue including scrutiny of the Coronavirus Act 2020, that there will come a time when the unvaccinated will be criminalised. The offence will be along the lines of endangering public health, and it will be treated seriously. Thus, if sometime in the future, a vaccinated and registered person has doubts about the official narrative r.e the Pandemic and Vaccines, and decide against a mandatory booster, the Passport scheme in whatever electronic format could be used to identify and locate them.

I have had doubts from the start about the accuracy of the information we have all been given, not least when I realised that the govt procedure for reporting cause of death had been significantly modified immediately prior to the pandemic, and the number of deaths was being vastly inflated. I have struggled in many ways with my views not least because my father died in January 21 from complications brought on by a delay to a heart operation. After a brave fight he succumbed to pneumonia and despite having given negative COVID tests for over a month his death certificate cause is stated as C19! I fail to see how bright intelligent critical thinking persons are not asking questions? Apologies for the essay and personal statements, and I’m not looking to argue with any folk, and have the upmost respect for anybody’s personal opinion!

from years of " dumbing down " and from more years of propogation of fear and loathing there seems to be a shortage of bright intelligent free and critical thinking persons around . the writing has been on the walls for a long time but even then some reading between the lines is needed to see the real truth . we are living in dangerous times ,, i too hope that you ( i / we ) are mistaken , but when we look at the attitudes already being shown even on this forum then i would say there is serious room for worry . i despair to think that anyone can seriously think the Cov - antic pedantics are about saving peoples lives ,, we are heading for a life with a security ankle brace and a muzzle on .

 

[BurnitBlue]

from years of " dumbing down " and from more years of propogation of fear and loathing there seems to be a shortage of bright intelligent free and critical thinking persons around . the writing has been on the walls for a long time but even then some reading between the lines is needed to see the real truth . we are living in dangerous times ,, i too hope that you ( i / we ) are mistaken , but when we look at the attitudes already being shown even on this forum then i would say there is serious room for worry . i despair to think that anyone can seriously think the Cov - antic pedantics are about saving peoples lives ,, we are heading for a life with a security ankle brace and a muzzle on .

I agree with you that our freedoms are under attack and we are, as a race, sleepwalking into the new surfdom. When I recall the freedoms we once had in my youth to what we are "allowed" today it is frightening. My first boat was bought in an era where there were hardly any restrictions. The boat was tax free under the then sporting rules, no registration, no certificates, no insurance moor where you want outside crown lands. I sailed her through europe on the canals with no checks and no cost and no CEVNI. Onwards through the Mediterranean with a welcome at entry port check in. Anchoring fees were considered an hilarious joke. OK the increase in yachting brought some necessary changes but no-one thought it would end up like it has over the last year or two.

I find myself sitting in my cockpit and truly considering whether I will be "allowed" to enter Italy, or even anywhere, can l leave Greece, or maybe not board a flight to go home or will I be allowed to go home without 14 days in a hotel under quaranteen. I now carry a valid passport, my SSR registration, my ICC certificate of competence, transit log, my vat status certificate, my covid passport, my PLF, my bank cards, my Swedish Resident card, my boat insurance. All these have an expiry date. My covid passport expires in six weeks so I must trust that it can be renewed on line or I will be in very very serious trouble. We were told some of these are temporary restrictions because of Covid, but now they are saying that Covid will never go away and we must learn to "adapt". If that does not cause alarm among freedom loving peoples then nothing will.

There are relatively very few demonstrations around world considering what is at stake. The governments are pretending that these are anti-vaccination protests. They are definitely NOT they are demonstrations about the creeping attack on our freedoms down to the basic level of choice.

I say again "boiling frog". Never mind, liveaboarding will survive but world wide cruising may not.