240v inverter earth

[adhdan]

I dont disagree...that's why I said 'maybe' because I cant be sure they all are. It makes sense that they are and no doubt regulations insist, but ...
Sorry about all this @adhdan but it's all part of the fun.

its all good . thats why i started a new thread because everyone i read through devolved into technical jargon thats above my paygrade. I got some precise answers at the start from PaulR so ive gone with that. While i was fitting the earth last night i noticed another earth, was just a wire cable tied to the side of a seacock, not someones best work haha. I followed it back and it ran into a 12v alarm system., no idea why.

The shore power consumer unit fitted in the boat is all earthed back through the shore power cable with no earth connection to the boat ...should i connect this earth to the boat earth? it runs 4 double sockets & a water heater

 

[Seastoke]

Of course it won't. Electricity has to flow in a circuit, take away the neutral shoreside and the RCD on any boat that has any load on would trip because the current return would indeed go back up the Earth as far as the pedestal, bypassing the RCD, causing an imbalance and tripping the onboard RCD. This is why the neutral/Earth bond is made at the pedestal.

Paul you are so wrong regulation 709.553.1.14

 

[Seastoke]

Paul your shore side knowledge is , well let’s say I respect you on boat knowledge .

 

[billskip]

The shore power consumer unit fitted in the boat is all earthed back through the shore power cable with no earth connection to the boat ...should i connect this earth to the boat earth? it runs 4 double sockets & a water heater

To be fair without seeing you installation I personally would suggest you dont.
For me I would install the inverter and "earth/ground it by connecting its earth to a dedicated anode fitted to your hull next time you are lifted / dry out, in the meantime get an anode and drop it ( connected to an earth wire) over the side.
My reason for this is the earth wire could carry electricity under a fault condition, possibly 240v, possibly momentarily, but also possibly creating a spike that could maybe cause damage to any device that is connected to you 12/24v DC circuits should there be a possible connection between the battery negative and lumps of metal (engine gearbox etc)...maybe I'm over cautious, maybe new design equipment has inbuilt protection these days....

 

[billskip]

The shore power consumer unit fitted in the boat is all earthed back through the shore power cable with no earth connection to the boat ...should i connect this earth to the boat earth? it runs 4 double sockets & a water heater

I found this....

 

[billskip]

@adhdan.
Regulation 709.411.4 highlights the prohibition against the connection of a PME earthing facility to any metalwork in a boat, in The Electricity Safety, Quality and Continuity Regulations 2002 as amended (ESQCR). Therefore, where the supply provided by the electricity distributor is PME, the electrical installation of a boat should use an installation earth electrode as its means of earthing (see the next item of this article) and be arranged to meet the requirements of BS 7671 for an installation forming part of a TT system.

 

[dsw]

Im fitting a 250w victron phoenix 12v>240v power inverter, coming up stumped on where to fit the earth, the boat is GRP with inboard. I couldnt find anything suitable through the hull to earth to so can i earth to the engine/gearbox to create a path down the shaft to the water? The inverter is to power a smart tv using an extension cable running from the plug socket of the inverter
I have read through multiple threads about inverters but ended up more confused then anything
Thanks
Dan

i had an inverter on my last boat for running just the tv and the inverter was just wired up to the 12v
+&- battery bank with a fuse inline and had no problems at all.

 

[Seastoke]

@adhdan.
Regulation 709.411.4 highlights the prohibition against the connection of a PME earthing facility to any metalwork in a boat, in The Electricity Safety, Quality and Continuity Regulations 2002 as amended (ESQCR). Therefore, where the supply provided by the electricity distributor is PME, the electrical installation of a boat should use an installation earth electrode as its means of earthing (see the next item of this article) and be arranged to meet the requirements of BS 7671 for an installation forming part of a TT system.

Skippy if you look back to post 21, I mentioned this , Regs are my job.

 

[Tranona]

its all good . thats why i started a new thread because everyone i read through devolved into technical jargon thats above my paygrade. I got some precise answers at the start from PaulR so ive gone with that. While i was fitting the earth last night i noticed another earth, was just a wire cable tied to the side of a seacock, not someones best work haha. I followed it back and it ran into a 12v alarm system., no idea why.

The shore power consumer unit fitted in the boat is all earthed back through the shore power cable with no earth connection to the boat ...should i connect this earth to the boat earth? it runs 4 double sockets & a water heater

Disconnect the wire to the seacock. Nothing should be connected to seacocks in a GRP boat. Yes, your 240v should be connected to the same earth as the inverter. If you do not have a convenient hull anode then fit a dedicated button anode and use that. The requirement for earthing the 240 came in with the regulation that Paul referred to earlier. It is not retrospective, but it still makes sense to do it as you need to follow the makers instructions and do the inverter.

 

[Seastoke]

i had an inverter on my last boat for running just the tv and the inverter was just wired up to the 12v
+&- battery bank with a fuse inline and had no problems at all.

Yes a lot of inverters come with a built in socket and a tv is double insulated ,so no problems.

 

[rogerthebodger]

Skippy if you look back to post 21, I mentioned this , Regs are my job.

Is this the full regulations

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2002/2665/pdfs/uksi_20022665_en.pdf

Read section 8(4) (5)

also Section 9 and 10

 

[Seastoke]

Is this the full regulations

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2002/2665/pdfs/uksi_20022665_en.pdf

Read section 8(4) (5)

also Section 9 and 10

Bodger you are out out of your depth put you life jacket on. The latest regs come out in 2022, not 2002

 

[billskip]

Skippy if you look back to post 21, I mentioned this , Regs are my job.

So you did...you know have learnt something...I'm getting old ant that comes with a few inconveniences

 

[billskip]

Regs are my job.

There are a lot of politicians...that's their job...
Do you believe all they tell you?

 

[billskip]

Yes, your 240v should be connected to the same earth as the inverter.

Can't agree with that....you probably know best....

 

[rogerthebodger]

Bodger you are out out of your depth put you life jacket on. The latest regs come out in 2022, not 2002

Ok billskip posted this

Electricity Safety, Quality and Continuity Regulations 2002 so I did google search so its dated 2022 then think for that

Is this the one then

https://ceb.mu/files/files/publications/regulations/Electricity (SQC) Regulations 2022.pdf

I do keep up with the laws and regulations that apply to me but there seems to be the UK regulations that is the issue but this forum is read all over the world that some of the UK regs do not apply to. Fused mains plugs are a nice idea but no where else seen to require fused plugs as a result we have a myriad of plug adaptors and multi plugs

 

[billskip]

I do keep up with the laws and regulations that apply to me but there seems to be the UK regulations that is the issue but this forum is read all over the world that some of the UK regs do not apply to. Fused mains plugs are a nice idea but no where else seen to require fused plugs as a result we have a myriad of plug adaptors and multi plugs

This is true, even ring mains as opposed to radial circuits. In its favour the UK system imho is good.

 

[rogerthebodger]

This is true, even ring mains as opposed to radial circuits. In its favour the UK system imho is good.

Yes it is now . When I lived in the UK I had an old house in the west midlands and I had to do a rewire job a the wiring was in a discussing state. I rewired it myself that maybe not allowed these days including ring mains and circuit breakers rather than fuses.

There was no quirement for a RCD at that time. When I moved to South Africa Circuit breakers and RCD were standard in all houses

Current house is the same.

I did find some wire nuts in the light fittings when I changes the lights to LED panel following replacement of ceiling panels.

Replaces then with leaf spring chock blocks

 

[billskip]

Yes it is now . When I lived in the UK I had an old house in the west midlands and I had to do a rewire job a the wiring was in a discussing state. I rewired it myself that maybe not allowed these days including ring mains and circuit breakers rather than fuses.

There was no quirement for a RCD at that time. When I moved to South Africa Circuit breakers and RCD were standard in all houses

Current house is the same.

I did find some wire nuts in the light fittings when I changes the lights to LED panel following replacement of ceiling panels.

Replaces then with leaf spring chock blocks

I was involved in many parts of the world whith many different regs and equipment, South America, USA, Canada, a lot of Europe, (even DDR behind the wall ) so I understand how difficult it is to make sense of some regs. I think the most difficult time I had was in South America where they used 2phase 110v with centre tap neutral for 220v equipment. They put phase failure protection on and this was imported 230v single phase equipment that left 110v on the 'neutral' side when in 'safe'mode....ok apart from the occasional 110v wack if there was a shared 3 phase supply when one phase was lost it caused havoc with feedback through other equipment......it was not easy to get your 'ticket' to cover all USA, CSA, SA, and European regs and spec's.

 

[rogerthebodger]

I was involved in many parts of the world whith many different regs and equipment, South America, USA, Canada, a lot of Europe, (even DDR behind the wall ) so I understand how difficult it is to make sense of some regs. I think the most difficult time I had was in South America where they used 2phase 110v with centre tap neutral for 220v equipment. They put phase failure protection on and this was imported 230v single phase equipment that left 110v on the 'neutral' side when in 'safe'mode....ok apart from the occasional 110v wack if there was a shared 3 phase supply when one phase was lost it caused havoc with feedback through other equipment......it was not easy to get your 'ticket' to cover all USA, CSA, SA, and European regs and spec's.

So clearly you understand the complexities of various regulations and applications.

Unfortulently some / most dont or don't wish to understand