240v inverter earth

[PaulRainbow]

Paul your shore side knowledge is , well let’s say I respect you on boat knowledge .

Typical ybw inverter thread, too much bad information. I posted the correct installation at the beginning of the thread. Shore power is most definitely bonded at the pedestal. If anyone doubts that, check at your pedestal, there will be continuity between the neutral and Earth.

 

[starfire]

Typical ybw inverter thread, too much bad information. I posted the correct installation at the beginning of the thread. Shore power is most definitely bonded at the pedestal. If anyone doubts that, check at your pedestal, there will be continuity between the neutral and Earth.

Sorry Paul, I have to take issue with you on this.

There will be no bonding at the pedestal, what you are measuring is the bonding at the supply 11kv*, star/delta transformer where the star point neutral is bonded to earth.

In some installations, there will be a very low value neutral resistor, to limit the current in the event of a big fault.

If you don't believe me, measure the voltage between neutral & earth when that phase supply is heavily loaded, it will be a few volts.

* some areas of the UK have lower than 11Kv networks.

But, keep up the good advice on boat electrics please.

 

[Seastoke]

There are a lot of politicians...that's their job...
Do you believe all they tell you?

Safety is what we are talking , no bollccs

 

[Seastoke]

Sorry Paul, I have to take issue with you on this.

There will be no bonding at the pedestal, what you are measuring is the bonding at the supply 11kv*, star/delta transformer where the star point neutral is bonded to earth.

In some installations, there will be a very low value neutral resistor, to limit the current in the event of a big fault.

If you don't believe me, measure the voltage between neutral & earth when that phase supply is heavily loaded, it will be a few volts.

* some areas of the UK have lower than 11Kv networks.

I am getting tired of people talking HV over LV , ihave told you the the reg number to look up , we are asking is pontoon . That is the biggest death threat.

 

[Seastoke]

Typical ybw inverter thread, too much bad information. I posted the correct installation at the beginning of the thread. Shore power is most definitely bonded at the pedestal. If anyone doubts that, check at your pedestal, there will be continuity between the neutral and Earth. nobody

Paul I want you to post on here with great advice But your pontoon is shit , thankfully this is done by peeps who understand BS 7671 fixed instalations andyou are doing yourself no favours quoting wrongly . I would love input off you to my radio air blog .

 

[starfire]

I am getting tired of people talking HV over LV , ihave told you the the reg number to look up , we are asking is pontoon . That is the biggest death threat.

Ok, remove any reference to HV, the rest describes the source of power to a fixed installation.

 

[Seastoke]

Sorrygus to the peeps who are quoting things do you know what , ZS and ZE IS these are a measurement that are on a test on a marine electrical cert .

 

[billskip]

Sorrygus to the peeps who are quoting things do you know what , ZS and ZE IS these are a measurement that are on a test on a marine electrical cert .

An earth loop impedance tester was part of my kit also part of my kit was a devise to measure the trip time and trip current of an RCD ...but the biggest laugh was the AVO 8 I had to lug around the departure lounges because the little multi meter was early days then...

Ryanair and Easyjet would have had a field day with my kit luggage..but they weren't about then....

 

[Seastoke]

An earth loop impedance tester was part of my kit also part of my kit was a devise to measure the trip time and trip current of an RCD ...but the biggest laugh was the AVO 8 I had to lug around the departure lounges because the little multi meter was early days then...

Ryanair and Easyjet would have had a field day with my kit luggage..but they weren't about then....

Let’s move to Marina electrics and leave this to, on boat electrics.

 

[billskip]

Let’s move to Marina electrics and leave this to, on boat electrics.

What more info does the op need...Tranona has decided and advised what is right to do, (although I disagree with him/her)..
Why do you wish to continue? What are you trying to prove?

 

[Tranona]

What more info does the op need...Tranona has decided and advised what is right to do, (although I disagree with him/her)..
Why do you wish to continue? What are you trying to prove?

Why do you disagree with the standard and the manufacturers recommendation? It is not me that has decided anything - other than follow the advice of those that know.

 

[billskip]

Why do you disagree with the standard and the manufacturers recommendation? It is not me that has decided anything - other than follow the advice of those that know.

I have stated my reasons in earlier posts, but to clarify, I dont agree as the op says his earth/ground is connected to shore power for his 240v supply it is an isolated connection only to his shore power. So by connecting the inverter ground to that ground allows for a possible 240v out to the shore power on through the ground wire under (possibly unlikely but risk is there) fault conditions. For example he is connected to shore power and there is a power failure, so he connects his inverter (there is a fault with his immersion heater leaking to ground for example) the supply from his inverter could find it's way back into the shore power.
It states quit clearly in the regulations that both Seastoke and I posted in previous posts that boats must not be connected to a PME supply with any ground connection on the boat connected to any metal (his immersion heater tank bonding?) It must be a TT ground system. Boats have to supply a dedicated ground electrode if connected to shore power if any ground circuits on the boat are connected to lumps of metal.....now what the manufacturer instructions say is absolutely nothing do do with my disagreement with your statement, I have made it quite clear it is my personal safety concerns that maybe considered by you and others as ott, but I'm entitled to that. My advice is (also as I interpret the regulations) do not connect the earth/ground of the inverter to the shore power earth, use a temporary electrode over the side into the water until its possible to fit a dedicated electrode on the hull.

 

[PaulRainbow]

It's getting rather depressing having to post the same thing, over and over and over on every inverter thread on this forum and on PBO. mostly derailed by the same person every time.

Firstly, regulations for new boats require that the 240v system Earth is grounded on the vessel, that means a connection from the common busbar etc to the water. This can be via the hull on a metal boat, the vessels ground plane (if fitted), an anode etc. Vessels that predate this regulation do not have to retrospectively make this connection, but it's clearly prudent to do so. When connected to the shore power this provides an alternative Earth path in case of failure of the shore based Earth.

As i said, this connection may not exist on older boats and there is no requirement to make it. But, most inverter and generator installations will require an Earth connection, see manufacturers fitting instructions for clarification. The Earth connection referred to will be to the common Earth busbar, which should also be connected to the water, as above. So now, although you didn't have to comply retrospectively with the current regs you do need to make the connection to comply with the inverter manufacturers fitting instructions.

It isn't rocket science, it really is that simple. Why ignore the manufacturers fitting instructions and the regulations, to take advice to the contrary from some random person on the internet ?

Please, do it properly and have a safe installation.

 

[billskip]

from some random person on the internet ?

But you are some random person on the internet to all those that don't know you personally, as am I and all others ....however.....are you sure that any new additional equipment can be installed under old regulations without updating the requirements to abide by the latest regulations?

 

[PaulRainbow]

But you are some random person on the internet to all those that don't know you personally, as am I and all others

But all i have done is quoted the manufacturers fitting instructions, which can be found on the Victron website for verification, plus what the current regulations say.

....however.....are you sure that any new additional equipment can be installed under old regulations without updating the requirements to abide by the latest regulations?

Yes, the regs are current, not retrospective. However, as i pointed out, you would have to fit the Earth to the water to comply with Victrons instructions.