jaws
Member
I'd be interested to hear from anyone with Gel coat issues. PM me.
2013 Bavaria 35 Sport HT
- Thread starter jaws
- Start date
Chris-Craft
New member
Baseplate
New member
Errrm-given that it was 18 months ago, I think probably not............................
P4Paul
Active member
I think you will find that new users can't see photos straight away, I am sure someone knows how it works but I seem to remember it being 3 days.
What dealer did you buy your Bavaria from?
Tranona
Well-known member
There were no pictures on the original post and the thread never developed, so guess nobody else at the time had any issues with their gel coat on the subject boat. Bit surprised that there would be as one of the features of Bavarias is usually very good mouldings.
P4Paul
Active member
I took it the OP couldn't see any pictures on the forum rather than in this thread. Agree with the Bavaria mouldings, we are on our third Bavaria and haven't had any major issues on any on them.
Tranona
Well-known member
Took the trouble to read the links he gave and there is more to this than meets the eye. Like you I am a serial Bavaria owner, so interested in his problems. Does seem to be quite serious, but mired in contrary "expert" views, offer and counter offers plus legal proceedings so difficult to get a clear picture of what went wrong and where the responsibility lies.
P4Paul
Active member
Had a quick look at the links which is why I wondered who the supplying dealer was.
Still enjoying the new boat smell on your Bav?
P4Paul
Active member
Guessing it was a Sport 35 HT, we have the non-hardtop version of its forerunner; a 2012 34 Sport, so the same hull moulding (just without the extended window) and same deckhead.
What are your issues?
P4Paul
Active member
I think you are better off taking this up with your supplying dealer.
Technical reports don't always translate well, the above is an example but from what I can glean, the inner monocoque moulding has delaminated.
If you have the level of issues your 'report' suggests, your boat is very unusual and whatever you may be feeling at the moment about Bavaria, their ability to constantly replicate well engineered products is without question.
Your dealer will be able to evaluate the issues you have and get the right level of support from the factory to enable you to get a satisfactory solution and outcome.
Technical reports don't always translate well, the above is an example but from what I can glean, the inner monocoque moulding has delaminated.
If you have the level of issues your 'report' suggests, your boat is very unusual and whatever you may be feeling at the moment about Bavaria, their ability to constantly replicate well engineered products is without question.
Your dealer will be able to evaluate the issues you have and get the right level of support from the factory to enable you to get a satisfactory solution and outcome.
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Whitelighter
Active member
If you really have the problems you suggest, why not reject the boat?
Tranona
Well-known member
Partly because it is too late, and partly because the dealer has gone out of business - but you have to pick that out from the mass of exchanges on the other forum.
BruceK
Well-known member
"it is likely that certain structural elements of the boat have been subjected to abnormal forces"
but what? Bad lift, bad sea, bad transportation etc. There isn't enough here for you to get riled that it was bad build, and unfortunately I cant read French.
P4Paul
Active member
I can just about manage to communicate in English so there was no hope for me once I had to look at anything in French. Even Google translate didn't help!
I feel for the OP as a new boat should be a great experience but this sounds very involved and complicated.
We took delivery of our first new Bavaria (yacht, not mobo) two weeks before Peters Opal went to the wall and so I can sympathise with the OP as I know how it feels to have some snagging/warranty issues and no support but to be fair, our issues were minor compared to what I can glean from the OP's post.
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P4Paul
Active member
It sounds like you have a solution available which is positive.
I have yet to find a boat (unless it has been on fire) that is not repairable given time and money; the photos on your posts suggest the boat is fully repairable.
Personally, I think you are going to struggle to gain a full refund until the dealer/manufacturer has chance to carry out a repair, at which point you can get the boat re-surveyed and make judgement then.
Tranona
Well-known member
Maybe I misunderstood. It was quite a challenge to follow the story from the forum threads you provided a link to, particularly as we have to rely on google translation. Apologies if I got it wrong.
It is unclear whether the damage occurred before you took delivery or after the boat had been used. As others have said here it is unusual to see this sort of damage on a Bavaria without an obvious explanation.
Personally I would not go down the legal route based on what I understand about the history of the boat. Such actions are rarely satisfactory and the offer from the factory to remedy the damage seems to be a better way.
DOAN
N/A
I know that the legal debate is not the quickest and the easiest.
Look at the conclusion of the surveyor, you could have a better understanding.
"The boat DOAN, as seen on the counter-survey carried out on the 21st october 2015 is no longer seaworthy.
This boat must not be sailed and the owner could have endangered his life during the brief time he sailed her.
All sailing on this boat would result in important and dangerous risks for its users.
I remind you that this boat is of build and category B, meaning it has to be able to withstand 4m waves and force 8 winds.
It is unimaginable today that this boat could sail in these conditions, even ones greatly inferior to which it is built
The defects observed on the structure of this boat as such to totally question the purpose of this boat.
Furthermore, it is likely that other structural areas have suffered from the twisting and therefore no longer meet the initial technical characteristics of the boat.
In any case, the buyer is the proprietor of goods which do not correspond with what he requested.
The owner sailed less than 10 hours with this boat and the list of damages it presented is relatively impressive.
If some damages can be repaired, others like the structural damages are unacceptable.
It is of my opinion that this boat be taken of the market and excluded from future sale in its condition.
The owner’s request to total cancelation of the sale of this boat from Bavaria is legitimate.
This cancelation will need to take into consideration any costs accrued to purchase this boat.
Finally, under no circumstances can the owner’s be held accountable as he has always kept the sales team at Bavaria informed via mail, which resulted in the regular visits they made to observe the damages on this boat.
Following the counter- survey, Bavaria has offered to take the boat back to Germany for repairs.
This outcome is totally unacceptable, as any repairs carried out will permanently reduce the value of this boat and there will be no guarantee regarding the structures of this boat which were subjected to abnormal forces.
All conversations, technical observations have been validated by all present, the survey took place in good conditions, and all present were in agreement with the observations made.
The Bavaria technicians apologised to the proprietor, for whom this is an important purchase, as it is his first boat.
A counter-survey report is attached to this document and signed by all present."
Look at the conclusion of the surveyor, you could have a better understanding.
"The boat DOAN, as seen on the counter-survey carried out on the 21st october 2015 is no longer seaworthy.
This boat must not be sailed and the owner could have endangered his life during the brief time he sailed her.
All sailing on this boat would result in important and dangerous risks for its users.
I remind you that this boat is of build and category B, meaning it has to be able to withstand 4m waves and force 8 winds.
It is unimaginable today that this boat could sail in these conditions, even ones greatly inferior to which it is built
The defects observed on the structure of this boat as such to totally question the purpose of this boat.
Furthermore, it is likely that other structural areas have suffered from the twisting and therefore no longer meet the initial technical characteristics of the boat.
In any case, the buyer is the proprietor of goods which do not correspond with what he requested.
The owner sailed less than 10 hours with this boat and the list of damages it presented is relatively impressive.
If some damages can be repaired, others like the structural damages are unacceptable.
It is of my opinion that this boat be taken of the market and excluded from future sale in its condition.
The owner’s request to total cancelation of the sale of this boat from Bavaria is legitimate.
This cancelation will need to take into consideration any costs accrued to purchase this boat.
Finally, under no circumstances can the owner’s be held accountable as he has always kept the sales team at Bavaria informed via mail, which resulted in the regular visits they made to observe the damages on this boat.
Following the counter- survey, Bavaria has offered to take the boat back to Germany for repairs.
This outcome is totally unacceptable, as any repairs carried out will permanently reduce the value of this boat and there will be no guarantee regarding the structures of this boat which were subjected to abnormal forces.
All conversations, technical observations have been validated by all present, the survey took place in good conditions, and all present were in agreement with the observations made.
The Bavaria technicians apologised to the proprietor, for whom this is an important purchase, as it is his first boat.
A counter-survey report is attached to this document and signed by all present."
P4Paul
Active member
I feel your pain but it appears these are opinions extracted from a survey report undertaken by a surveyor in your employ in response to a survey undertaken by the supplier/manufacturer. I am guessing the two surveys have differing opinions especially regarding the cause and extent of the problems.
It looks that you will accept nothing else but a full refund, if that is the case, I strongly recommend you take legal advice and follow their guidance to the letter.
Let us know how you get on, I hope you find an acceptable and amicable conclusion.
It looks that you will accept nothing else but a full refund, if that is the case, I strongly recommend you take legal advice and follow their guidance to the letter.
Let us know how you get on, I hope you find an acceptable and amicable conclusion.
A_8
Active member
Is it not relevant how the damage has occurred? I assume it is due to really bad handling/storage of the boat during transportation which might bring other parties (who transported and handled the boat) into a possible solution. There should be documentation stating transportation and handovers etc.
The surveyor should also be able to asses where the forces that twisted the hull were applied which in turn would indicate how and possible when it was damaged.
The surveyor should also be able to asses where the forces that twisted the hull were applied which in turn would indicate how and possible when it was damaged.
BruceK
Well-known member
"The owner sailed less than 10 hours with this boat and the list of damages it presented is relatively impressive."
Regardless of how these were caused. At 10 hours! You must be devastated. What ever else you have my sympathies. Put's my own gripes into clear perspective. I've wished you good luck before and do so again.
Regardless of how these were caused. At 10 hours! You must be devastated. What ever else you have my sympathies. Put's my own gripes into clear perspective. I've wished you good luck before and do so again.
