2013 Bavaria 35 Sport HT

[Whitelighter]

Why sold on at a loss if its back to original, strengthened etc.

GRP is a wonder material like that, you can punch a hole in it 5 feet across and patch it so no integrity in the structure is lost.

 

[BruceK]

Based on depreciation between cost of delivery and final sell of a reapaired boat. I'd suspect if the manufacturer were selling they'd want it out the door to recover costs so it would imo still go below market rate. Given initial cost, repairs, forecourt / yard depreciation to final sell would be significant. They'd have to declare repairs to a prospective buyer. Would you pay market rate for such a boat albeit good as new? Nobody wants to buy a fixed lemon at top dollar irrespective

 

[Whitelighter]

Yes I agree they'll take a hit from depreciation as its a used boat.
Would I buy a boat repaired and warranted by the manufacturer over another boat - depends on circumstances but I wouldn't rule it out - a longer guarantee period might actually make it more desirable.

But that's a mute point a bit as I'm unlikely to be in the market for this kind of boat.

Also I'm not sure there is any requirement to declare the repair work, not if it is as new and survey passed.

 

[BruceK]

Maybe not. Porshe or Porshe dealers tried that one on welding shut two good halves of crash damage writeoffs. The courts had a field day, the press more so when the car failed in another crash killing the driver. Costs of compensation were biblical even by yank standards and this was 20 years ago in South Africa. Hardly litigious then.

 

[gjgm]

My web research found exactly as above so it saved the typing. The only manufacturer obligation is the warranty and this is "as written" i the warranty book - which will say repair I suspect ( or repair / replace at its discretion). I doubt it says refund.

Tread carefully. Get the advice of a spanish lawyer not a boat forum. I stand by my position earlier. Bavaria may not want the publicity, but remember the Azimut thread of a while ago? Azi did not roll over. Ideal? Far from it, but its probably the best way forward.

I certainly feel for OP.. a dream turned into a true nightmare. I agree he has to take emotion out of this. Get some damn good legal advice who can say what the options are , the costs and possible outcomes. I imagine Bavaria repairing it for free is the most attractive one both from a financial and personal stress view.

 

[aquapower]

How was this damage caused? Was it delivered in that condition? I can't see that dealer would deliver in that state or is there more to this. A boat doesn't usually just develop those kind of defects, possibly caused by road transportation or incorrect lifting. Where the wood has broken across the grain concerns me most as that would have required a lot of force to split like that.

 

[petem]

I rather prefer a financial stress than the conséquences of an accident due to repairs.
Just have a look with Google "crash airplane after repairs"

Buts it's not a aeroplane, its a boat. I could make an analogy about millions of cars being safely repaired but that would be no more relevant. Boats are made of GRP which is very repairable.

I admit I haven't real all this thread so may have missed this info, but how did the cracks occur? Even with possible manufacturing faults a boat shouldn't show cracks like that. Was there issues with craning / transporting or was the boat driven hard or in some heavy seas?

To be honest, if the manufacturer has conceded there's an issue with the boat and has agreed to repair it I would have the boat trucked to them before they change their mind. The quality of the repair and what happens to the boat after that is their responsibility not yours. Hanse should know what they are doing and it may be that once repaired your boat is the strongest one out there.

Good luck.

 

[Whitelighter]

It's a Bavaria Pete, not a Hanse...

 

[P4Paul]

I rather prefer a financial stress than the conséquences of an accident due to repairs.
Just have a look with Google "crash airplane after repairs"

In the survey report that the dealer commissioned, was there a suggested reason for it happening?

 

[petem]

It's a Bavaria Pete, not a Hanse...

Ah OK, accuracy was never my forte. My point still stands.

 

[P4Paul]

Wow, that looks terrible scrolling through the photos, I too would lose all confidence in accepting a repair and would also want to wash my hands of a boat in this condition.

Gary, the photos do tell a sorry story but in my opinion, I see nothing in the photos to suggest that it is anything other than fully repairable in a way that ensures the boat is equal or better than the original design.

The hull, deck and inner mouldings have been in use (with minor tweaks) since 2009/2010.
There is something very strange about Doan's boat, as I have said multiple times before, I feel for him and hope he gets a satisfactory outcome. From previous experience of undertaking boat repairs, although a few years ago, the usual stance is for the repair to be carried out and a independent survey carried out which then forms the basis of the agreement; either the boat is accepted as equal or better than designed or a settlement is reached.

Unfortunately, if the outcome is that the boat has been repaired satisfactorily then Doan is left with the problem that the information supplied on this forum makes it easy to identify. I suspect that Doan's is the only boat of its spec built in May 2015 and therefore these threads have the ability to kill its secondhand value. This, I fear, may come back to bite Doan in the longer term.

I am not sticking up for Bavaria, this shouldn't have happened to a new boat under normal use so either something has happened, such as the boat being dropped in the slings, or, something has gone wrong in the manufacturing process.

The only balance I can offer is that there are 100's of these hull,deck and inner liners around the world and to the best of my knowledge, this is an isolated case.

 

[Tranona]

I rather prefer a financial stress than the conséquences of an accident due to repairs.
Just have a look with Google "crash airplane after repairs"

It is perhaps a mistake to compare simple well proven boats like your Bavaria to an aeroplane. Boats are repaired all the time with often far more serious damage than on yours without any suggestion that they are no longer safe.

Fear that you have unreasonable expectations of what is either possible or acceptable and it is going to turn out very costly for you.

 

[Andy Bav]

The only balance I can offer is that there are 100's of these hull,deck and inner liners around the world and to the best of my knowledge, this is an isolated case.

Got to feel sorry for OP - dream to nightmare in 10 hours.

Agree, that its either

a) an isolated incident of something going wrong during the build, or
b) something happening between leaving the factory and the first cracks appearing

I remember P4Paul commenting to us when we took delivery of ours in July 2013 how, in his experience, robust he noted the build was, so based on that my money would be on (b), and if that is the case, that opens up a different Pandoras Box.

We are clearly seeing a culmination of the OPs frustration over the past few months but if a "factory solution" is being offered, so why not take it ?. From memory the hull is warrantied for 5 years (?) so if it is repaired I would suggest that

1. The 5 year clock starts from date of acceptance of repairs by OP
2. The boat is surveyed at Bavs expense every year during that warranty period - with a written report that can be kept with other invoices etc to help retain value.

Not being well versed on fine points of Law, but I would have thought that by entering into an agreement with the yard (for repairs) he is effectively creating a customer / builder contract, which others have stated may not exist following the demise of the dealer ?

As other have stated, worst case scenario is being lumbered with a boat that cant be sold, .

 

[P4Paul]

It is perhaps a mistake to compare simple well proven boats like your Bavaria to an aeroplane. Boats are repaired all the time with often far more serious damage than on yours without any suggestion that they are no longer safe.

Fear that you have unreasonable expectations of what is either possible or acceptable and it is going to turn out very costly for you.

In post #38 it appears the issue is not about repair but compensation for "loss of value due to repair". I agree with Bavaria that there will be no recognisable loss in value post repair provided it is carried out professionally and puts the boat equal to or better than the original design and they will be able to easily prove that the design is sound, fit for purpose and complies with the RCD.

Bavaria will do everything they need to do to put the boat right but my gut feeling is that any goodwill they may have felt inclined to offer went out the window the moment he posted the first thread.

I fear that these threads are doing more harm than good for Doan in the long run.

 

[P4Paul]

Got to feel sorry for OP - dream to nightmare in 10 hours.

Absolutely.

 

[oGaryo]

I am not sticking up for Bavaria, this shouldn't have happened to a new boat under normal use so either something has happened, such as the boat being dropped in the slings, or, something has gone wrong in the manufacturing process.

The only balance I can offer is that there are 100's of these hull,deck and inner liners around the world and to the best of my knowledge, this is an isolated case.

Very much tongue in cheek but maybe Doan's boat inadvertently got built in the factory that builds keels for their yachts Having done a quick Google I can only find issues with Hard Tops coming away from the deck of a 35HT boat whilst underway, cannot find anything on serial hull crack issues so looks like you're right, a one off for some reason

Hopefully Bavaria do read this and rather than take a step back, they take a further step forward and do right by Doan.. hope he and they get it sorted immicably

 

[P4Paul]

so looks like you're right, a one off for some reason

Hopefully Bavaria do read this and rather than take a step back, they take a further step forward and do right by Doan.. hope he and they get it sorted immicably

#38 shows that Bavaria have already stepped forward to 'do right' by Doan.

 

[Whitelighter]

I don't think so, because you can't hide the repairs at a futur purchaser.

Otherwise you could be sentenced for hidden defects.

"Honesty is the best policy."

The repairs dont compromise the boat. GRP is such a material that is can be endlessly repaired and fixed. All they will do is grind back the tabs that have come away and re-glass and then add structure (if that is the root cause) to the area under the twisting chest.

Assuming you are a private individual - when you come to resell there is no law requiring you to disclose repairs assuming the boat is subsequently surveyed and given a clean bill of health.

You have a solution, granted its not the one you want but you have bought a boat and if Bavaria make it right then you haven't lost anything.

At the moment the builder seems prepared to take it back and fix all the faults to your satisfaction. Id take that and move on. I have been in a very similar situation - so similar its scary so I do understand your emotional response.

 

[A_8]

I had a smaller boat once, got it new and it cracked in a similar manner after a few months, I drove like a crazy person so I guess it was my fault but I did not know that at the time. Anyways they took it back and the hull was much stronger after the repairs with a lot of added GRP and I would think it to be the same with your boat so at the end of the day one could even argue its value to be higher after the repairs.

 

[gjgm]

I rather prefer a financial stress than the conséquences of an accident due to repairs.
Just have a look with Google "crash airplane after repairs"

Of course, up to you. I am just mentioning that if you are, quite understandably, distressed by all this now, how is it going to be if it goes on another couple of years...?Winning financially may be the worst outcome.