£500 fine for flying Cornish etc ensign

[mikemonty]

To an extent:
The operative word here was NATIONAL news.
We also have a separate local news programme, as I'm sure you do, giving local weather, but my point was that, as a national broadcast its would be polite, nay - necessary, to include one tenth of the population in "WE". - If you want to consider us part of the nation that is...

 

[Robin]

Actually I hate the use of 'WE' and 'OUR' in their forecasts full stop! 'OUR' weather front is moving south...' is rubbish! Anyway the general forecasts bear very little on what happens on the south coast just like in Scotland I'd guess. Where we are we also suffer from East and West, because we are pretty well dead centre yet included in the southeast for forecasts. Often the forecast 'weather' has already passed us and yet the southwest 'weather' has yet to reach us. We used to be central southern before they had a clear out, someone has to pay for that Scots lady's multiple outfits so I guess we were volunteered.

 

[Fascadale]

The Saltire is my national flag.

The Red ensign is the flag of an old union which I feel has outlived its usefulness.

The Euro ensign is the flag of a new union which I feel is much more relevant to the future.

I am happy to wear the ensign which displays the country from which I come and the Union to which my country belongs.

 

[Judders]

For the record, I am proud to wear a British ensign on my boat.

To those who fly their Celtic ensigns when sailing in home waters I would ask whether they do the same abroad and whether they would do so in far flung waters? When seeking the protection of the consulate, what nationality comes up then?


[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
............strong personal national identity...........

[/ QUOTE ]

When was Cornwall a Nation ? I can't find any reference ....

[/ QUOTE ]

Have you looked? Have you been to Cornwall?

Anyone who goes to Cornwall and does not spot the difference is a thoroughgoing idiot.

For the benefit of those who have not. England is, despite the protestations of it's people, an amalgamation of Mercia, Wessex and Northumbria which were unified by the Normans at around the turn of the previous millennium. Being an inherently expansionist peoples, the new Norman aristocracy made great attempts at subjecting Scotland, Wales, Cornwall, Ireland and Brittany to their rule, with varying degrees of success, however by the time of what we now call the medieval period, the mineral wealth of Cornwall (including roughly half of Devon) meant that like the romans, it was felt best in Winchester/London to leave well alone whilst the Cornish themselves were much happier to trade with and accept the military protection of the English. Thus they were amalgamated in more or less the same way as the (then) Welsh. Cornwall is still, no more English than Wales.

The history of England, as taught in England (and indeed in Cornwall) is actually the history of Wessex and is no more relevant to Yorkshire than it is to Cornwall. Indeed we all like to knowingly point out that Winchester, from whence I have just returned after a lovely lunch, was once the capital of England but this is utter balderdash, it was the capital of Wessex, it was no more the capital of England than York or Durham (sorry Mercians, I'm struggling with the capital? Worcester? Gloucester?)

The basis of so called English history is that at the final moment of the battle of Hastings, all these disperate theifdoms suddenly unified under the Norman flag. It is childish piffle.

Of course ecclesiastical patronage of the early universities has far more to do with the 'English' perception than reality. In just the same way that the Roman influence on academic study teaches us that all pre-Roman culture was savagery, the English perception of Cornwall is based upon the anger of the Church when a frankly papist doctrine was refused in Cornwall.

 

[pennycar9]

[ QUOTE ]
Mr Twister_Ken

Regarding those who served and made great sacrifices in the past, please refer to my first post on this thread.

Yes it is very important that we remember their service and sacrifice but equallly it is important to remember that we now live in a new and changing world.

I'm not sure that we should allow the now fading but always valued memories of the past stand in the way of progress and change

[/ QUOTE ]it will be a very sad day indeed if we start to forget the sacrifices made by all 4 countries of the United Kingdom. The Union Flag is made up from the countries who are part of the union and we are all bound by a common denominator, we are connected together as one land mass, we are not connected to Europe (apart from that bluddy hole at Folkstone)

I think we should all remember the words of Winston Churchill,
' Let us remember the past and learn from it, for without history, there can be no future'
I am primarrily English as I was born here but I am Great BRITISH

 

[aquaholic]

It never ceases to amaze me how much rubbish can be typed regarding this subject. Surley the point of flying an ensign is to identify under which country the ship or boat is registered. If you dont like the flag then register your vessel in another country, or better still move.

Rant over .....

 

[pennycar9]

I fly a pilot jack from my stemhead every day. It is more commonly known these days as a civilian jack which means any of us oiks can wear it.
Should be hauled up and down as is the union jack but I don't go that far with traditionalism(more Like I can't be arrrsed with doing the ceremony bit)
I am both pleased and proud to be able to do it.
I have no wish to fly the flag of Norfolk, where I was born and bred, as it is not a country, It is part of the United Kingdom of which the Red Ensign is the National mercantile Flag, not a bunch of golden stars on blue.

 

[tabernacleman]

A sweeping statement which seems to miss two obvious points, wales is not represented in the Union flag, Ireland is not part of the same land mass, indeed further overseas than France, so whats your point?

 

[Colvic Watson]

This has always confused me - I thought that Wales' symbol was the red dragon? In rugby and football they wear red - how is their national colour not in the red white and blue of the union jack?

 

[Sultans_Kapitein]

I think you will find the flag of the union incorporates the cross of St David, who if I am not mistaken is the patron Saint of Wales

Mal

 

[webcraft]

[ QUOTE ]
smacks of nationalism which is IMHO definitely not wanted. I believe in the National Ensign

[/ QUOTE ] Yeah well, that's clear as mud . . .

- W

 

[pennycar9]

My point,sir, is that I am quite proud to be British and I am proud to fly the chosen ensign of the country I live in which is Gt Britain. Men and woman of these 4 countries that make up these lands of the British Isles (including Ireland) were,and continue to be, pround to serve in the defence of these islands,you will notice I include Wales.

 

[theoldplucker]

It seems that the Cornish Ensign is recognised by some.
I was once sailing in the Helford estuary, flying the Cornish flag as an ensign. The Royal Yacht Brittania passed by us and I dutifully dipped my ensign. The Royal Yacht dipped her ensign in return. When close enough I called to officers on deck asking them why they were not flying the Cornish courtesy flag !
To many Cornish they certainly do not consider themselves as English. Probably an insult to refer to a Cornishman as English. There are many historical reasons for this which can be found elsewhere. However, how can Cornwall be part of England when the wages have always been so much lower. I have personally experienced when working for a company in which the pay rate for the same job in Plymouth (just over the border in England) was 50% more than in Cornwall !!!
Cornwall has suffered for generations being on the end of the English boot and will continue to do so.

 

[matelot]

[ QUOTE ]

Quite simply because in the 5000 year history of Cornwall, it has only been considered part of England for about four hundred years.

[/ QUOTE ]

I believe your history is incorrect. Cornwall was paying Danegeld to what became the English by 1013 and had been absorbed into England by the time oif Edward the Confessor who dies in 1066. According to Wikipedia anyway. /forums/images/graemlins/ooo.gif

In the end I suppose the support for regionalism, for want of a better word, comes about because many people arent happy with the UK. They see it as a failure. As something negative. A country that isnt any good at anything much. And this reflect is the large number of people who would like to emigrate. By comparison, the US has far more nationalities in its populace but since they value being American, there is no Hawaian independance movement, or Alaskan etc.

In short successful countries are united. Unsuccessful ones break up.

 

[Phoenix of Hamble]

[ QUOTE ]
The Saltire is my national flag.

The Red ensign is the flag of an old union which I feel has outlived its usefulness.

The Euro ensign is the flag of a new union which I feel is much more relevant to the future.

I am happy to wear the ensign which displays the country from which I come and the Union to which my country belongs.

[/ QUOTE ]Ocklepoint, I find that post incredibly sad. In fact, I even find it insulting.

 

[TamarMike]

[ QUOTE ]
I think you will find the flag of the union incorporates the cross of St David, who if I am not mistaken is the patron Saint of Wales

Mal

[/ QUOTE ]

The St David's cross (once used by the Church in Wales) is the same as the black and gold version of the St Piran's Cross (as used by Cornwall rugby team). I don't recall any black or gold in the Union Flag.

 

[Judders]

Matelot, Mercia, Northumbria, Wessex, Fife, Ireland, the Orkneys, Flanders, Normandy and many others payed Danegeld. It makes them about as English as drinking Carlsberg. What's your point?

[ QUOTE ]
It seems that the Cornish Ensign is recognised by some.
I was once sailing in the Helford estuary, flying the Cornish flag as an ensign. The Royal Yacht Brittania passed by us and I dutifully dipped my ensign. The Royal Yacht dipped her ensign in return. When close enough I called to officers on deck asking them why they were not flying the Cornish courtesy flag !
To many Cornish they certainly do not consider themselves as English. Probably an insult to refer to a Cornishman as English. There are many historical reasons for this which can be found elsewhere. However, how can Cornwall be part of England when the wages have always been so much lower. I have personally experienced when working for a company in which the pay rate for the same job in Plymouth (just over the border in England) was 50% more than in Cornwall !!!
Cornwall has suffered for generations being on the end of the English boot and will continue to do so.

[/ QUOTE ]

This illustrates roughly 40% of the anti-English feeling in Cornwall, though it pales in significance compared with the ignorant biggotry of 'you're just like Dorset'. Unintended I am sure Robin, but that is, none the less, how it comes accross.

That said, I don't really think that the Royal Yacht, nor any other British registered vessell needed to wear a courtesy flag in Cornwall unless they are wearing an English/Welsh/Scotch/Irish ensign. If they wear a British ensign then why should they wear a courtesy flag in home waters?

Once a year, I am tempted to swap the 1 yard St Piran's cross on my port starboard signal halyard with the 24" ensign on my jackstaff to make people think... but it wouldn't work.

 

[Judders]

[ QUOTE ]
The St David's cross (once used by the Church in Wales) is the same as the black and gold version of the St Piran's Cross (as used by Cornwall rugby team). I don't recall any black or gold in the Union Flag.

[/ QUOTE ]

I struggle to find people who can explain where the white in the vertical and horizontal lines of the Union Jack come from?

 

[absit_omen]

[ QUOTE ]
To many Cornish they certainly do not consider themselves as English.

[/ QUOTE ]

However, they are not behind the door when it comes to selling their property (at ridiculous prices) to English City banking second homers. Thus denying their 'Cornish' decendents their birthright.

Or smugly ripping off all the 'grockles' (I think you call them) every summer. Without the 'grockles' you would soon be whingeing even more pathetically.

The dual standards are stultifying.

 

[tabernacleman]

The dragon only been the Welsh symbol for a relatively short period, historically speaking, and its on a white and green background so can hardly be classed as being incorporated into the union flag, there seems to be some confusion regarding British, United Kingdom and Great Britain, not to mention the British Isles, and I don't think we should even get into what Eire did for us in the war. /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif A long way from what we should or should not fly on the back of our boats isnt it, I prefer the Red Ensign although I sail mostly in Wales, /forums/images/graemlins/ooo.gif does Wales have territorial Water?? Could be another cause for a rant or two /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif