£500 fine for flying Cornish etc ensign

[KenMcCulloch]

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The St David's cross (once used by the Church in Wales) is the same as the black and gold version of the St Piran's Cross (as used by Cornwall rugby team). I don't recall any black or gold in the Union Flag.

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I struggle to find people who can explain where the white in the vertical and horizontal lines of the Union Jack come from?

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The white in the horizontal and vertical represents the ground of the red cross of St George; the white on the diagonal represents on the one hand the white on blue scottish saltire and on the other the white ground of the red diagonal cross which apparently represents Ireland. All a bit archaic as Ockle Point says.

 

[TamarMike]

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Or smugly ripping off all the 'grockles' (I think you call them) every summer. Without the 'grockles' you would soon be whingeing even more pathetically.


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They be Grockles in Devon, but cross the Tamar and they become Emmetts m'dear

 

[absit_omen]

[/ QUOTE ]They be Grockles in Devon, but cross the Tamar and they become Emmetts m'dear

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Why not simplify matters and just call them 'pensions' or 'donors'?

 

[tabernacleman]

'I struggle to find people who can explain where the white in the vertical and horizontal lines of the Union Jack come from? '

Obviously the white paper background it was drawn on
/forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

 

[philip_stevens]

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'grockles'

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'grockles' in Devon, and Emmets in Cornwall.

 

[philip_stevens]

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'I struggle to find people who can explain where the white in the vertical and horizontal lines of the Union Jack come from? '

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Obvious /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif - its the white part of the flag of St.Piran. Shows Cornwall was a separate country.

(Oops, this'll start more discussion)

 

[Judders]

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To many Cornish they certainly do not consider themselves as English.

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However, they are not behind the door when it comes to selling their property (at ridiculous prices) to English City banking second homers. Thus denying their 'Cornish' decendents their birthright.

Or smugly ripping off all the 'grockles' (I think you call them) every summer. Without the 'grockles' you would soon be whingeing even more pathetically.

The dual standards are stultifying.

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What utter moronic one sided bollockes. Would you sell to a lower offer in the same circumstances? Of course you bloody wouldn't. This attitude really [--word removed--] me off. It is hypocracy of the worst kind.

It is the same as the Richard Littlejohn attitude to Scotland. Why have the English not been pushing the Scots out of the Union? Oil.

The economic treatment of Cornwall by the Westminster government has been nothing short of disgraceful. In the early nineties Cornwall was the most poverty stricken area in the EU. The EU therefore ploughed money into Cornwall. What did Westminster do? Pull all funding and ban the Cornish language. The money was diverted to marginal constituancies and this was increased in 1997.

Cornwall's economic problems began when mining died along with farming. Other areas who lost all their industry got help. In Cornwall, whilst the recovery funding was going into the coalfields, we were taxed 800 to 1 yet we were poorer. So all the talent left, including my father (and therefore me).

So now that industry in Cornwall has, by Westminster decree, been restricted to 'tourism', we are supposed to be grateful to tourists for turning up? In the same way that I should be grateful if you come to dinner at my house? [--word removed--] on my lawn. I should then be taxed on the bottle of wine you don't bring to fund your takeaway?

 

[TamarMike]

Look here, what fun we can all have...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_English_flags

I wonder if I need to print off a copy so I can identify them all if seen at the crosstrees etc.

 

[noname]

I agree with brigid_mary views .
Its not pc these days to support the substantial achievements that the once Great Britain has achieved .
Personally i take pride in seeing my countries flag flown Union flag,Red duster,whatever.
As a nation the English,Scots,Welsh and Irish are fantastic ,sadly now eroded with the divide and rule culture of offshore enterprises aided by bliar and nimbies .
Nothing wrong with national pride,seems to be alive and well within europe?
One flag that will never fly on my boat is the E.U. sweet wrapper !
By the way no BNP or other links than being born BRITISH and best: )

 

[Fascadale]

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The Saltire is my national flag.

The Red ensign is the flag of an old union which I feel has outlived its usefulness.

The Euro ensign is the flag of a new union which I feel is much more relevant to the future.

I am happy to wear the ensign which displays the country from which I come and the Union to which my country belongs.

[/ QUOTE ]Ocklepoint, I find that post incredibly sad. In fact, I even find it insulting.

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I can understand your sadness: letting go of the past often evokes that emotion.

I'm puzzled by the "insulting" reference. Political structures evolve: the United Kingdom as we presently know it is quite recent. 100 years ago all of Ireland was in the UK, the Treaty of Union itself is only 300 years old. We must adapt to a changing world.

Should the feeling of insult be some sort of reference to those who served and made sacrifices under the Union flag then perhaps they did so to defend our freedom to make our own choices.

Nonetheless I assure you that I have no intention to insult anyone and apologise if I have inadvertently done so.

 

[mcframe]

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The Saltire is my national flag.

The Red ensign is the flag of an old union which I feel has outlived its usefulness.

The Euro ensign is the flag of a new union which I feel is much more relevant to the future.

I am happy to wear the ensign which displays the country from which I come and the Union to which my country belongs.

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What do you fly on 3rd September?

Hint: The Scottish Government don't fly the Saltire on that day - I don't think it's even an official flag day outside Scotland.


(mine's the red (entitled to, but not required, MSA95) ensign on the taffrail, and the old Scots ensign at the crosstrees)

 

[Twister_Ken]

General comment:

All this stuff about history, Normans, what happened x00 years ago somehow reminds me of the vitriol spouted about King Billy, and why Ulster should be 'free'. Irrelevant in today's world.

An ensign shows your country of registry. For all UK yachts the country of registry is Britain and the national ensign is the red ensign (or the blue one if you're feeling a bit double-barreled). If you want Cornwall or Scotland or Wales or Great Buggering on Sea to be created a separate nation for registry, then campaign for that and get the law changed. Until then, fly the correct ensign.

And as for that EU daisy chain with a saltire cowering in the corner, pass the sick bag, Alice.

 

[mikemonty]

Well we're now well into uncharted waters.
My grandfather "died under a red ensign" as some might poetically put it. Torpedoed by a submarine with another "heroic ensign" of a different colour.
I am sure he,at no point, considered the "dulce et decorum" of his ensign. And given half the chance I suspect my Gran would have spat on the Brit one just as quick as the German one if she was looking for a symbol to blame and hate.
My point is that his (and others of course) sacrifice is the only important thing here - not some bit of cloth.
I'm not going to impart significance to a symbol - I can't think of many symbols that haven't got a dark side for someone. (An RAF rondel wouldn't go down well in Hamburg after 1945)

The ensign is nothing more than a declaration of (legal) nationality - I'm not particularly proud of it and if someone else wants to concoct another variation incorporating recognisable elements why should we get narky about it?

 

[Fascadale]

The 3rd September is as we all know Merchant Navy day in the UK, a day when we can celebrate the achievements of our forefathers.

Not entirely certain of the specific significance of that date in, as Jack used to boast, "the world's best small country"

 

[tcm]

ok, let's have a special dispensation for everyone (but only in Scotland, mind) to obey the rules they feel like obeying, or if it's good manners, or appropriate. Do whatever you like. Hurrah!

Er, did Scotland actually sign the Treaty of Rome? Oh well, not to worry...

 

[Fascadale]

"Er, did Scotland actually sign the Treaty of Rome? Oh well, not to worry..."

I think the people of Scotland would be quite happy to have had the Treaty of Rome signed on their behalf. After all, history would indicate that we are always willing to join a Union that had a future. I guess its a small country thing.

As for our friends in the south, whilst many of them seem keen that we maintain a union with them,many of them often protest their unwillingness to maintain their Union with Europe. Bit of a paradox really.

Big fish in small pond becomes small fish in big pond perhaps?

 

[Anonymous]

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As ever, the real purpose of the ensign gets lost. It is not to do with national pride, showing where you live or anything like that for a yacht. It is simply to indicate that when you enter the territorial waters of another state it signifies that your yacht is British Registered and can therefore claim "innocent passage" and not be required to meet local registration requirements. The only ensign that achieves this for a British Merchant Ship is the Red Ensign.

[/ QUOTE ]Exactly. That is the point of it. Any nation's authorities recognise the Red Ensign (the most instantly recognisable Ensign in the world, I suggest?) and check their books to see what the requirements are. Other flags are unofficial and unauthorised and cannot be recognised.

 

[Twister_Ken]

"As for our friends in the south,"

That'll be between Edinburgh and Berwick, then?

 

[Fascadale]

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"As for our friends in the south,"

That'll be between Edinburgh and Berwick, then?

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I sense the perception of persecution.

"Our friends in the South" describes those south of Berwick and even those south of Calais.

Whilst Scotland is a "little" country there has never been a Little Scotlander movement. Perhaps the relative lack of opportunity here makes us more international in our outlook.

I'll put my hand up to deepfried Mars bars and midgees but not to xenophobia.

Now if you wish to discuss Little Englanders.............

 

[Robin]

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An ensign shows your country of registry. For all UK yachts the country of registry is Britain and the national ensign is the red ensign (or the blue one if you're feeling a bit double-barreled). If you want Cornwall or Scotland or Wales or Great Buggering on Sea to be created a separate nation for registry, then campaign for that and get the law changed. Until then, fly the correct ensign.

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That is indeed the whole truth and nothing but the truth!

Some of the bitterness, bigotry and bollocks here from some posters shows just how far this wonderful land of ours has gone to the dogs in recent years. Welcome to Cornwall, we hate you grockles but love your money. Welcome to Scotland we hate you English, will support anybody other than England if Scotland are not playing and still beat you up in the pub afterwards. Welcome to England, what's left of it that is that is still English.

Well every cloud has a silver lining because when I get out of here next year I will not be as sad as I thought I would be, indeed bring it on.

And our final cruise in European waters with our Red (or defaced blue) Ensign this year will take us to where we still feel a welcome despite the low value of sterling, as quickly as possible and avoiding even a quick stopover in Cornwall. /forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif