Viking Anchors

[Neeves]

For those who like anchor threads there are couple over on Cruisers Forum that are reaching reaching an interesting stage.

The key player seem now to be Viking Anchor https://www.vikinganchors.com who are stating they have reached the production stage - and the prices look interesting - though freight might be an issue.

The threads started from a open source DIY anchor thread and then morphed into the introduction of Viking.

http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/f118/anchor-diy-200740.html

http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/f118/viking-anchor-now-where-have-i-seen-this-before-218097.html

Jonathan

 

[Tradewinds]

Never seen a website with so many spelling mistakes - shame.

Otherwise interesting - especially the holes in the fluke (I think Panope on CF did that to a Manson or Rocna to great effect).

 

[Neeves]

In common with mot people who 'play' with anchors Panope was simply copying an established practice.

http://www.anchorright.com.au/products/sarca-anchors/

Jonathan

 

[Tradewinds]

Agreed - I have a Sarca Excel.

It was the arrangement of the parallel drilled holes I was comparing.

 

[Neeves]

Agreed - I have a Sarca Excel.

Quite a surprise.

A man of considerable, good, taste - and one willing to put his head above the parapet.

Jonathan

 

[Neeves]

A SARCA Excel would be an option for Lucy

http://www.ybw.com/forums/showthread.php?524293-Vulcan-anchor-anyone-used-one

It would be interesting, but a bit of drift if you were to mention how you bought one and how it has performed.

Jonathan

 

[Tradewinds]

Back around 2012 a forum member on here organised a group purchase (there were 6-8 of us) direct from Rex Francis at Anchoright.

As to performance. Embarrassingly, I've not put it to any great test as my planned extended cruise didn't materialise.

From what I've seen it performs very well (but again so did my 45lb CQR during a 6 year circumnavigation). Comparatively, the Excel No5 sets far quicker and has stronger holding so I'm happy.

The big CQR now sits in the shed and I carry a Kobra2 as a back-up along with a 35lb CQR as a stern anchor and a Fortress FX23 for good measure.

FYI my windlass is a Lighthouse 1501 which has operated brilliantly since its purchase in 1996 along with 100m of 3/8 ACCO G40 HT chain (which doesn't seem to be offered nowadays).

HTH

 

[Neeves]

Thanks HTH,

I don't know the timing but ACCO is part of Peerless, which was bought out by Kito a couple of years ago. Peerless still sell G43 (sometimes 'called' G40), and I thought under the ACCO brand. In fact G43 is the default quality for new yachts in America (they would come with a G43 gypsy) rather than an G30 gypsy. G43 is also sold (it only comes in imperial sizes) by CMP under their Titan brand and by Campbell (part of Apex tools). Peerless sell metric chain in Europe, including G40. G43 is an American Transport Chain, as is G70.

Note metric chain (other than Maggi's G70) is sold with a 4:1 safety factor but G43 is sold with a 3:1 safety factor - thus G43 has a mathematically enhanced WLL. Also note - metric chain will not fit in an imperial gypsy and imperial BBB, G30, G43 and G70 are all different link sizes (though a G43 MIGHT take a G70 chain).

Lighthouse - reputed to be the Rolls Royce of windlass.

Jonathan

 

[AntarcticPilot]

Do you mean this sort of thing? (lifted from http://www.hurstwic.org/history/articles/manufacturing/text/norse_ships.htm)

 

[Neeves]

Do you mean this sort of thing? (lifted from http://www.hurstwic.org/history/articles/manufacturing/text/norse_ships.htm)
View attachment 79296

No - too difficult to fit on a bow roller and the design variants would cause endless discussion - and no-one would welcome that . In any case the design might have been registered - and arguing with a Viking did not work on the UK's east coast.

Don't question me on the name chosen - I'm just offering potential options for people wanting to buy an or another anchor (Lewmar possibly being another, option - awaiting Lewmar Lady's reply). Possibly some do not want new anchors to be introduced

Sorry, I've just seen Lewmar Lady's reply - the Epsilon is not yet available (for which they apologise).

Jonathan

 

[Bouba]

The roll bar looks a little flimsy

 

[zoidberg]

The roll bar looks a little flimsy

Perhaps without the roll bar, and with a rather longer shank, it might make a 'weapon of war' a Viking would be proud to wield.

As for Antarctic Pilot's suggestion, don't mock! I once contrived something not dissimilar..... The Start of the Scottish Islands Peaks Race involved 'anchoring' or jilling-about in Oban Harbour while one's runner-pair did a circuit of the town before being dinghied back on board. The bottom there is notoriously foul, and many anchors had been lost there in past years. I found a piece of trawler's cod-end netting about 2 metres square, pulled it into a pouch, and filled it with boulders from the foreshore. This was lowered from the forebeam of the 10m Danish trimaran we had, on a doubled warp, which held us in place a few yards off the beach until our runners were able to wade out and scramble aboard.

It was the easiest thing then to slip one end of the line, leaving the boulders and the netting back where they'd come from.

That saved us about 15 minutes ahead of the others.....

 

[Yngmar]

This one looks a lot like a Mantus derived design, except someone had access to a laser cutter and got a little bit too excited about it. The shank is also quite a bit shorter.

The flimsy looking rollbar probably doesn't matter - there isn't usually much load on those. Although we have retrieved our Rocna by its sturdier rollbar once or twice when forced to anchor in rock, so you want it to be at least strong enough for pulling the anchor out backwards and lifting it up by the rollbar.

There's also a gimmicky retrieval nook in the shank, which I doubt will work well in practice with their poorly named "Anchormate", which is quite obviously just a bicycle locking cable. It will however make it even more difficult to fit well on a bow roller without chewing it up.

Prices are good, and making a modern generation anchor more accessibly priced is excellent news for everyone who likes anchoring. I wish all the boats around would have a good anchor (and know how to use it), so I don't have to worry about them dragging in the night.

Now who's going to risk buying one to test it? Are free samples available in exchange for feedback?

Lastly I couldn't help but notice there's at least one hole missing in the illustration of the assembly. Hope they didn't forget it in manufacturing, else it'll be a bit tricky to assemble.

 

[zoidberg]

Lastly I couldn't help but notice there's at least one hole missing in the illustration of the assembly. Hope they didn't forget it in manufacturing, else it'll be a bit tricky to assemble.

'Me, sir! Me, sir! I know!'

Maybe they didn't have a 'round tuit' left.

 

[Neeves]

Bouba's comment is actually valid - roll bars do take some punishment and can bend, I have a picture of a slightly bent Mantus roll bar. Viking claimed in one of their posts the anchor, all of it, was based on a high tensile steel - which is unusual (flukes are usually mild steel) but the fluke, shank and maybe roll bar are all, said to be, HT steel - which at least means the fluke might not bend.

Well spotted the missing hole in the drawing/illustration.

It has some significant differences to the Mantus which might make it perform more acceptably than Mantus. I am sure Noelex will be along to explain - he is an expert on Mantus - though a bit short on detail

Anchor development is incremental - there have been very few original designs - I'd single out Bruce, SARCA and Spade - the rest have all copied something or a lot from others.

Peter Bruce patented the roll bar. Gordon Lyall developed that specific shank shape (common to most anchors today - even Spade), the fluke shape, those angles and breaks in lines of the fluke are common to Spade, Rocna etc. In fact if you lay flukes one on top of each other - they are much more similar than different. The removable shank, Spade and then Anchor Right Aluminium Excel, bringing the shank up from underneath - Anchor Right aluminium Excel. The only perforated fluke anchor I can think of is the SARCA - though it has more pronounced slots.

The Lewmar LFX aluminium fluke anchor looks very similar to a Fortress - and no-one is rushing to Fortress defence.

Releasing an original anchor is difficult (and many like the Hydro Bubble and XYZ simply disappeared).

If they keep prices down and it performs - it might alter the dynamics of the market. Lewmar's LFX will alter the dynamic for aluminium fluke anchors - because they have an enviable global reach.

Competiton is healthy - for the consumer.

Unfortunately looking at an anchor, where its a Vulcan or a Viking does not actually tell you how it will work (though it might tell you why it might not work). It needs to be tested and used by people with a reputation for honesty and able to explain why it does (or does not) work. An example of this - look at the Fortress Chesapeake mud tests - Spade and Ultra look very similar - but behaved very differently. Mantus and Rocna look 'similar' but behaved differently.

So don't stick your neck out yet.

There was an offer on CF for free samples - but I am not a member and could not take that offer up.

I was flattered that one of my articles was linked to the design, which has aroused my interest and I have been following developments (one reason for the thread). The modifications or changes making Viking significantly different to Mantus are not as far as I would have gone - but - in theory - it should be much better, nearer Rocna than Mantus is close to a Delta. Wait for the feed back....

And to re-assure - I have no involvement in Viking, at all - except they took one of my articles to heart, read it and understood (and authors like it when that happens ). It merits note - the article also illustrates why some designs don't work. Whether it infringes design or copyright - I have no idea - but if this were an issue - maybe some proof should be produced before accusations (not suggesting you Yngmar, are suggesting anything) are thrown about.

Jonathan

 

[Windekind]

I was reading about current available anchors, and found some interesting models. I like the Storm model, it looks a very sensible design to me.
Then I discovered the derivates Adriatic Marine anchor and the Viking anchor.

The Adriatic anchor has no holes in the fluke.
It is made of plate only, also the roll barr is made of strip and not tubular material.
Adriatic anchors on Youtube

The Viking has holes in the fluke, and tubular roll bar. Otherwise they seem very much alike in design.
Viking anchors on Youtube

What anchor would set deepest? The Adriatic roll bar from metal strip, or the Viking roll bar made from rod/tube?
To my understanding the fluke in a single plane (no ‘brake’ like on Rocna or Spade) is what makes this type of anchor set deep?

I hope someone can clarify on the design consequences for each type of roll bar?

BR, Walter

 

[vyv_cox]

Before watching the video I thought 'strip, great idea' as it would reduce drag resistance through the seabed. Then I watched it, and saw that actually the strip is mounted vertically, increasing resistance. So not such a great idea.

 

[V1701]

I had a quote from Adriatic Anchors - 12kg was E250 + VAT plus E40 shipping. I liked that it was collapsable but at the time (january) could find no test data. Then I decided on a Mantus, got put off them for not being any better in terms of holding power than a Delta and settled on a 9kg Knox which was £265 inc. shipping. Had I known about the Viking anchors I'd have been very tempted, the price is competitive and although the web site has spelling mistakes it's pretty comprehensive and they look to have done some proper testing...

 

[dgadee]

Never seen a website with so many spelling mistakes - shame.

Me neither. Astonishing. Why wouldn't you get a commercial web site proof read?

 

[Neeves]

If you wade through this video you will find that Steve Godwin aka Panope makes an attempt to define the holding capacity of the Excel and references the hold of a similarly sized Mantus. He has another vid, somewhere, where he tests the small Mantus.

The Mantus is particularly bad and reflects the design fault I identify that its hold is low

The Excel has a hold similar to a Rocna, Spade, Supreme - 'on average' you would not tell the difference. We use a Excel and Spade - so you know where my preferences lie - so if you detect bias......

The idea that Mantus and Rocna are similar is a joke, shows a total misunderstanding of how the 2 anchors work (or not) - and an insult to Peter Smith (and I'm no friend of Peter Smith)


I agree with Vyv - using a band, of HT steel, for the roll bar would be a good idea - but not the way shown in the Adriatic - another lack of understanding. The Adriatic has the same design faults as the Mantus and will have a low ultimate hold in comparison with Rocna, Spade (Viking) etc. Viking has made a major modification to the design significantly increasing hold. There are other changes which will further increase hold, one being the thin fluke.

Of course given the apparent success of Mantus, who have never published hold data - maybe hold is no longer important. Certainly the champions for Mantus have never worried about the absence of data. I recall how 'holding capacity' and the 'anchor wars' held the attention of thousands - how times change. All you actually need is good PR.

If you compare the illustration provided by Yngmar of the Viking in post 13 and compare with the design now - you will notice some subtle changes. They have not gone as far as I would have gone, so they have the opportunity to increase hold further, but maybe the thin fluke gives them the extra hold they need.

All anchors borrow design facets from previous anchors - its the name of the game. There have been very few really original designs, I'd highlight CQR, Bruce and Spade. Most other anchors copy - Rocna copied, Excel copied, Spade copied - don't be critical of what look like copies - some have original features (which will be copied as further new anchors surface - as Spade has been copied). I like to see invested time and resource into anchor development - we are the beneficiaries (unless you buy a Mantus ).

A Mantus is not unsafe - its has some redeeming features but it has the same, or similar hold, to the same weight of Delta (data which Steve/Panope endorses) - if you are happy with that - go for it,

Jonathan