Matsutec HP-33A AIS Transponder

[nigelmercier]

Had a read of your manual link Nigel, but can't find the unit dimensions...

My template in Post #81 should print at actual size, the outline of the unit is the dotted line.

 

[sailbleu]

Ok , just thought I put my two cents about this transponder.
First of all , i bought mine last year , making me , I guess , one of the first to discover and buy this device. Matsutec client avant la lettre so to speak.
I first inquiered about it on a dutch forum where some professionals in the AIS business are members .
Bad move it seemed , they appearenty where trying to be objective but there was also the consideration - probably without them even realizing it - this being a Taiwanees (Asia) product and therefor a threat to the Dutch/European economy.
Mixed feelings so to speak . The price of this product was/is so competitive and as a customer being able to order and buy directly from the manufacturer , margins of the local European importers and sellers could/would for sure come under pressure. That always creates nasty behaviour .
For instance , I for one was threatened by a member on the board - nickname Freebird - that if we would pass by sailing he would report me to the autorities for using a non approved AIS transponder. The world is full of twisted minds like that of course
As most of you well know this device has not been officially tested and given a go for sales in Europe . Not something to take lightly , be sure if they stop you in our waters and find a non autorised broadcasting device it will be confiscated next to a fat fine on the side. Maybe even a revocation of your VHf licence.
And although some of the professional remarks that where made on the specific board had a economical hidden agenda , they where also to the point.
AIS transponders need to carefully broadcast their data (your data !! ) within a timeslot so you do not disturb any other broadcasts.
Messing up that electronically organised queue could have serious consequences .
A collision caused by a funny transponder (read not approved) could have devestating financial effects for those responsable. Insurances would be more than happy to deny coverage. Something to bear in mind I would imagine.
Having said that , I' m not using my transponder in crowded waters . The Northsea chanel is one of them , if not the most important one.

Now the evaluation:
My score for this device is without a shadow of a doubt somewhere in between an 8 and a 9. Also taking the price into account.
However !!
There is one issue though I would like to mention . Maybe the recent SW update has solved it , but when I switch my transponder off on the controlpanel the MMSI number is deleted. no MMSi data means no broadcasting . Good thing I can easily re-install the number without any fuss.
When you program it for the very first time and enter it there is also no question " are you sure " .
With most transponders confirming the MMSI is irreversible , making a mistake will force you return your purchase to an autorised dealer to have it reset again.
When this transponder is powered down on the device itself ( the blue knob ) all is well and data stays in.
Maybe Matsutec would be better of adressing this glitch provided they already haven't done so with the new firmware.

Kind regards

 

[Bi111ion]

I bought mine in 2013 so was also an early adopter. Mine does not have the same fault as yours and never forgets the MMSI however I power it down. I think you should contact the manufacturers - perhaps it is a firmware bug which you could fix by upgrade?

 

[JumbleDuck]

As most of you well know this device has not been officially tested and given a go for sales in Europe . Not something to take lightly , be sure if they stop you in our waters and find a non autorised broadcasting device it will be confiscated next to a fat fine on the side. Maybe even a revocation of your VHf licence.

Would they do the same for a visiting Chinese vessel using one of these devices? Would they do the same if you had quite legally bought and installed the device outside EU waters?

A collision caused by a funny transponder (read not approved) could have devestating financial effects for those responsable. Insurances would be more than happy to deny coverage. Something to bear in mind I would imagine.

There is always someone who will say about anything "your insurance may be invalid". Ask them which clause of the contract would cause the problem.

Anyway, I think you can rest easy. This isn't a case of Chinese manufacturer making something for the European market: it's a device made to international standards and if it really was dodgy the chaos it would cause would soon be spotted in Chinese waters for a start. That said, I wonder why they don't go for EU certification and send a container load across.

 

[2nd_apprentice]

Would they do the same for a visiting Chinese vessel using one of these devices? Would they do the same if you had quite legally bought and installed the device outside EU waters?

Irrelevant, a foreign vessel doesn't have to comply with national regulations in the same way a Dutch boater has. To give an example: in Germany the police can and will fine boats for using lights without BSH stamp of approval. This doesn't however apply to foreign registered vessels.

That said, I wonder why they don't go for EU certification and send a container load across.

Cost obviously! The Matsutec is so cheap for a reason.

 

[nigelmercier]

...I wonder why they don't go for EU certification ...

They did.

Please direct discussion on CE approval (it is), merits (or otherwise) of Chinese made gear etc in this thread:
http://www.ybw.com/forums/showthread.php?382812-Cheap-Chinese-AIS-Transponder

 

[2nd_apprentice]

They did.

They did not. What they need to legally sell equipment here is approval under the R&TTE Directive - which they don't claim to have or seek (I asked).

"The European Radio equipment and Telecommunications Terminal Equipment (R&TTE) Directive (1999/5/EC) was published in the Official Journal of the European Communities on 7 April 1999. It covers all radio equipment and all equipment intended to be connected to public telecommunications networks."

 

[JumbleDuck]

Irrelevant, a foreign vessel doesn't have to comply with national regulations in the same way a Dutch boater has. To give an example: in Germany the police can and will fine boats for using lights without BSH stamp of approval. This doesn't however apply to foreign registered vessels.

So what are the UK regulations in this case?

Cost obviously! The Matsutec is so cheap for a reason.

Is approval desperately expensive?

 

[2nd_apprentice]

So what are the UK regulations in this case?

Ofcom:
"Are there rules for selling radio equipment in the UK?

Yes. Before radio equipment can be placed on the market or put into service it must comply with UK regulations known as the 'R&TTE Regulations' (The Radio Equipment and Telecommunications Terminal Equipment
Regulations 2000, SI 2000/730 (as amended)).* "


http://stakeholders.ofcom.org.uk/spectrum/technical/rtte/rtte_faq/

And yes, they also talk about CE but the one Matsutec use is a self-declaration that the
passive electronics conforms to the standard, this however is not valid for active transmitters.
Their non-transmitting equipment complies but the AIS implementation is no approved.

Ofcom:
"But, it is also important to note that, where a person (or company) alters another manufacturer's radio equipment, or re-brands it as its own, and then places it on the market, that person or company has the obligation to comply with the Regulations."

Is approval desperately expensive?

According to Matsutec USD 340000.

 

[2nd_apprentice]

This is important btw:

"Who is responsible for compliance?

The person (or company) who places radio equipment on the market is responsible for its compliance with the R&TTE Regulations. That will usually be:

- if it is in the European Economic Area (the 'EEA'), the relevant apparatus manufacturer;
- if the manufacturer is not in the EEA, but an authorised representative is, the authorised representative; or
- where neither is in the EEA, the importer of the equipment."

"The importer" in this case is the end user, at least if you bought it from China directly.
In the real world it's not going to be a problem though. I doubt anybody would really question the CE mark or even ask for any documentation. I wouldn't however recommend importing and re-selling them officially. Well you could of course write "Not to be used in the EU" but that brings us back to the reason why they are so cheap.

 

[JumbleDuck]

Ofcom:
"Are there rules for selling radio equipment in the UK?

Yes. Before radio equipment can be placed on the market or put into service it must comply with UK regulations known as the 'R&TTE Regulations' (The Radio Equipment and Telecommunications Terminal Equipment
Regulations 2000, SI 2000/730 (as amended)).* "

I suppose it's the "put into use" bit they might do a yottie for, though I'd be interested to know what happens if in installed set enters EU waters from somewhere else, like Guernsey or Norway or China.

According to Matsutec USD 340000.

Blimey. That's a heck of a tough bit of market protection. Sorry, I mean that clearly that's a very assiduous piece of protection against dangerous electronics which work well everywhere else but might do terrible things if allowed to compete with european ... sorry, again, if allowed to transmit in European waters.

I plan to fit one of these next spring. I shall order a false nose and moustache for picking it up at the post office.

 

[Alpha22]

. Maybe the recent SW update has solved it , but when I switch my transponder off on the controlpanel the MMSI number is deleted. no MMSi data means no broadcasting . Good thing I can easily re-install the number without any fuss.
When you program it for the very first time and enter it there is also no question " are you sure " .

Maybe Matsutec would be better of adressing this glitch provided they already haven't done so with the new firmware.

Kind regards

That is exactly one of the faults corrected in the update. After update you will get one chance to input the MMSI number again. Then it will be in forever.

 

[sailbleu]

Not sure about other European countries , but in mine you have to carry a list on board stating all the transmitting devices present.
You will not get a go for an non approved AIS transponder , they do have a list of allowed transponders in the headquarters of BIPT ( Belgien institute for post and telecommunication)
It is stated that having transmitting appliances which are not on your board list are illegal and be regarded as a violation of the law. Fines will follow and in some cases you can lose you VHF licence . Going through the examinations and applying for a new licence will be inevitable.
Please don't get me wrong , I'm on you side guys but it' s not because I have such a transponder that I don't keep my options open.
As I said before , I will stop broadcasting when arriving in busy waters untill I read a story or testimony somewhere that the timing/timeslot issue has been checked.
You need professionals for that , but its the same professionals that have huge margins or revenues on sales of approved transponders.
Catch 22 .

@ Alpha22 , good thing Matsutec looked into it , the software bug that is.

But gentlemen , don't bet your bottom dollar they will be coughing up 340.000 $ very soon now.

Kind regards

 

[Heckler]

Not sure about other European countries , but in mine you have to carry a list on board stating all the transmitting devices present.
You will not get a go for an non approved AIS transponder , they do have a list of allowed transponders in the headquarters of BIPT ( Belgien institute for post and telecommunication)
It is stated that having transmitting appliances which are not on your board list are illegal and be regarded as a violation of the law. Fines will follow and in some cases you can lose you VHF licence . Going through the examinations and applying for a new licence will be inevitable.
Please don't get me wrong , I'm on you side guys but it' s not because I have such a transponder that I don't keep my options open.
As I said before , I will stop broadcasting when arriving in busy waters untill I read a story or testimony somewhere that the timing/timeslot issue has been checked.
You need professionals for that , but its the same professionals that have huge margins or revenues on sales of approved transponders.
Catch 22 .

@ Alpha22 , good thing Matsutec looked into it , the software bug that is.

But gentlemen , don't bet your bottom dollar they will be coughing up 340.000 $ very soon now.

Kind regards

One of the very many reasons for the UK to pull out of the EU. I note the Belgian authorities have swiftly back tracked on red diesel!
We need your tourism spend! hohum! so market forces can beat the EU bureaucrats!
S

 

[nigelmercier]

... After update you will get one chance to input the MMSI number again. Then it will be in forever.

Perhaps a good reason to save a copy of the old firmware, assuming this is possible.

 

[sailbleu]

@ Nigel , I kinda share your sentiments.

@ skipper, don' t take this personal , but please decide , in or out !!
You can't have it both ways , enjoying the EU benifits and stepping on the brake fulltime.

Regards

 

[TSB240]

Bump

My post seems to have go lost to the world and lack of eauropean approval!

GPS now installed.
Thanks Nigel for the detailed flush mount drawing. My only problem was getting new cables run from pushpit mounted Antennas as the conduit was only big enough to take the GPS coax! I had to carefully desolder the pin connector on the end of the GPS coax and remake this connection after rethreading. I have managed to connect and get the instruments to repeat the Nav data. Connections were correct first time again thanks to the contributors of the colour cable and pin outs...

I have not had time to fit a waterproof socket to allow me to plug a PC in to download my waypoints. I intend to fit a Bulgin bulkhead socket to the RHS of the Facia and wire it up for either serial or USB connection to a PC

What Download/upload utility(FREE?) are people using?

I am used to creating a GPX file in open cpn on the PC and uploading that to direct to a Garmin Montana.
Can i do the same with the Matsutec?

Any tips or hints much appreciated.

Thanks to all the contributors that have made this install so easy.
View attachment 46032

I was unable to use the freeware GPS utility to download my waypoints and routes from my old gps. The freeware version limits the no of waypoints and no of waypoints per route.!

Being a tight fisted geek I then managed to downlaod all of these using Easy GPS but have not found a working GPS type that allows them to be uploaded to the Matstutec!

Has anybody managed to get Easy GPS to talk to the Matsutec?

Looks like I am going to have to shell out for the GPSU full program unless anybody else has a solution?

Steve

 

[Alpha22]

I draw your attention to Post 2 in this very thread.... http://www.ybw.com/forums/showthread.php?385367-Matsutec-HP-33A-AIS-Transponder
It shows exactly how to upload waypoints to the Matsutec using GPSUtility (free)

 

[TSB240]

I draw your attention to Post 2 in this very thread.... http://www.ybw.com/forums/showthread.php?385367-Matsutec-HP-33A-AIS-Transponder
It shows exactly how to upload waypoints to the Matsutec using GPSUtility (free)

Errr Think you missed my point GPPSU free wont let me dowload them all from my old gps! I know it could upload them!

I dont think I can transfer them from easy gps to the gpsutility either....

 

[Alpha22]

Ooops sorry... My misunderstanding.
From what I remember the files are basic text files.... a bit of format tweaking with Excel and you may be able to crack the transition????