Losing engine power in the BC when sailing?

[BenMurphy]

I’m interested in what people’s planning or actual experience is with regards to losing engine power when sailing in the Bristol Channel, where we are not fortunate enough to have the presence of SeaStart.

Particularly in the context of single or short handed sailing when coming back to Cardiff Bay and the potential difficulties of getting through the barrage under sail alone.

I can think of a few scenarios:

1. Fix it under sail (a challenge in terms of keeping watch if single handed)
2. Drop anchor or take a mooring nearby and fix it or “phone a friend”
3. Radio the barrage and ask for a tow. Would they do this?
4. Pan pan to the lifeboat.

Thoughts / experiences?

 

[Morpheous]

Hi I have been in exactly this situation, having had a serious engine failure in the BC. Call the coastguard. They are very helpful, they can also call in other boats near by.

 

[BenMurphy]

Hi I have been in exactly this situation, having had a serious engine failure in the BC. Call the coastguard. They are very helpful, they can also call in other boats near by.

That’s good to know. What was the outcome - did they give you a tow direct to your home port?

 

[Gwylan]

Had similar many years ago. Small boat with outboard for power, on our way down channel to Swansea.
Engine died, turned out to be terminal.

You find the nearest accessible port at your sailing speed and tide direction then head for it.

Called Watchet and managed to sail in, when you could, and put the boat onto the hammerhead.
Fixed, replaced, the engine and set off on the next favourable tide. The guys were very helpful too. They we're just setting off to come and give me a tow.

Happy days.

 

[Yellow Ballad]

The first time I took my new to me boat out we motored from Newport to Cardiff as it was as flat as it can be, not a breath of wind, 100 yards from the Outer Wrach the engine conked. First thing I did was try it again and luckily it started but not running right, I turned for deeper water and got the anchor ready. Luckily it stayed running but only at high revs so I was circling at about 5 kts in the outer harbour, the lock gates opened and I managed to tie up but I'm sure Barrage control wondered what the hell was happening. Once inside the lock I didn't care if it didn't start again, I blead the system and managed to crawl to CYC visitors pontoons where I managed to semi sort the problem (it turned out ther rubber fuel pipe had been rubbing on a copper pipe to the CAV filter and was cracking but I didn't find that for a few weeks). The way home was an "interesting" one, waiting for the engine to stop, sods law I got all the way to Newport in the river it was blowing a 6, the over heat alarm went off and not enough water on the mooring. I pushed her into the mud (rising tide) and managed to drag her onto the mooring after about half an hour.

I have towed a fellow club member who lost all his diesel in to his bilge back, after he anchored but dragged and was drifing up the Usk whilst down below trying to sort it. I don't think he realise he was drifting up till I sailed past and shouted him.

To answer your question though, if able to sail, just sail somewhere safe/sheltered and pickup a mooring or anchor unless conditions were seriously deteriorating or there were other issues like unwell crew members or the bar was about to shut .

I wouldn't try to get into Cardiff under sail ever, but anchor in Penarth/Barry or back to Newport (as we're taking that part of the channel) if I thought I could fix the engine. If I had no luck and it was terminal I would attempt to sail back up to Newport and get back on the mooring and ask one of the members to stand by and tow me on to the pontoon if they were about. As your berthed in Cardiff that may mean you have different priorities. It'll be good to get to know some people in the club, and keep the clubhouse phone number in your phone! I'm sure one of the many leisure fishing/power/sailing boats would tow you in if hailed them.

I wouldn't try and more then bleed the fuel system underway if on my own unless I had a lot of room, if I had crew then that would be different. Oh, keep lots of spares and learn how to service/check your engine. I'm planning to build a emergency 5lt tank out of a fuel can with a feed and return that I can hook up to the engine seperate to the main tank just in case. I've put a primer bulb pump on my diesel feed which speeds up bleeding no end, I'll normally give it a few squeezes when I check the engine to check it's still full of fuel.

Don't be afraid to radio the coastguard though if you think you're going to have issues, don't risk you or the boat, even if it's just a "informal notification" on 67 that you've had a problem and are trying to sort it. If you ended up on the mud they would probably come out even if you didn't call, and then again when you refloated so you'll be saving them a second shout.

 

[Morpheous]

That’s good to know. What was the outcome - did they give you a tow direct to your home port?

We were in a Mobo, going from Swansea to Portishead. Lost one engine completely and the other would only idle. (Smoke from the first failure had blocked the air filter on the second) . Called the coast guard to let them know of a potential issue, we then managed to limp in to Cardiff just before the tide turned. Coast guard co-ordinated with the Barrage so we had a lock waiting for us and we went straight in under our own steam. It was of course the engine with the power steering that failed. Expensive weekend that was.

 

[Snoopy463]

A lot of smaller boats with a reasonable transom stern often have an auxiliary outboard mounted on a lower-able fitting in case of main engine failure. With your Horizon 272 and a retrousse stern, that may be too much of an ask. A decent anchor and suitable warp is always your friend when in need.

 

[Dutch01527]

I am also in Cardiff and have thought about this. Conclusion was:

1) If I had competent crew, the wind was reasonable and the tide not too low - warn the barrage control and then sail into the barrage outer pool, drop sails and either float about or drop anchor(not allowed I know) and phone for a tow from club / marina or ask barrage control for help

2) If the conditions above were not met sail to Penarth Beach and anchor off. Call for help as above

3) Strong winds, no wind and drifting dangerously or sickness/injury. Pan Pan

To my mind it is only a Pan Pan “urgent situation” if there is a reason that using the sails is not safe but I respect that this is every skippers personal decision.

Being able to drop/furl the sails easily single handed is good practice. It is also important to always have good ground tackle with a long chain and rope, ready to deploy quickly. I also have a fixed vhf, handheld vhf and a charged mobile phone with relevant numbers pre loaded.

 

[graham]

Hi Ben
I wouldn't attempt to sail into the barrage outer harbour.The walls will blanket you from the wind leaving you being pushed around by the strong currents generated by the tide and the water emptying frrom the locks.

Safer to get as close as you can and anchor out of the main channel with luck you may be able to ask another inward bound boat to tow you through the lock.if in any danger call the coast guard .

Carry a spare fuel filter ,drive belt and impeller then chances are you will be able to get yourself going again.

 

[Dutch01527]

Interesting view about sailing into the outer harbour. When I was thinking about options I asked my mate who is ex commodore of one of the clubs and a very well respected sailor and he said that he had had a engine failure and sailing in was the approach he took successful. I would not be too worried about the wind shadow from the walls, that would only be there when you were inside. However, I had not considered the wind shadow from the cliffs.



I might try it one day with the engine running in neutral. Anchoring In the Wrach Channel is not good because of the big ships and anchoring in the small channel leading to the outer harbour seems somewhat tight.

 

[Snoopy463]

In extremis, you could also run yourself aground in the soft mud bank on the starboard side of the approach channel. I’ve been there (accidentally) and it would afford a safe if somewhat lengthy option to sort out a problem or to arrange a tow on the next rising tide. I wouldn’t suggest a novice to try sailing up that channel on a falling tide.

 

[Dutch01527]

Given that the prevailing wind is generally SW so no tacking I think that sailing under reduced sail up the Wrach Channel and down the channel into the outer basin would not be too dramatic. Worst case if it goes wrong is sliding slowly into the soft mud and calling for a tow.

Maybe the more cautious approach is anchor further out and call for a tow but I tend to be quite independent and like to look after myself as long as it is not dangerous to me or other vessels.

 

[graham]

If you have a dinghy with an outboard another option is inflate it and lash it alongside the cockpit area of your boat even a 2 or 3 hp will give you a couple of knots in quiet conditions.

 

[oldmanofthehills]

I lost a drive coupling approaching cardiff outer harbour. The Barrage got upset when I apologised for not going into lock and wanted me to notify the RNLI vi the CG. I refuted their suggestion and fixed it eventually after maybe 20 minutes and crawled in. ( I wasnt right in the entrance blocking it)

I reckon someone would have towed me in eventually, certainly a Pan Pan is legitimate in those circumstances if nothing else can be done

 

[Birdseye]

When I first started it was sailing from Chepstow in a Hunter 26 with an unreliable Honda outboard. It would always start stone cold but never when even slightly warm so numerous times I had to sail onto my mooring in Chepstow. You learn fast like that but its an easy thing to do in a handy boat. After all, thats what sailors have done over the centuries.
As time has gone on I have sailed into moorings and marinas in all sorts of locations from the med to the IoW. But when it comes to lock gates the only answer is a tow. I have been towed into Cardiff and several times I have towed other boats in after races. There will almost always be some taffic in and ouyt and they will help you with a tow.
The key is to get some practice in. Try sailing up to the ,marker buoys in Cardiff bay . Calling the RNI or the coastguard is a last resort and an embarrassment.

From your other post I see you have a Hunter 272 which in practice is like my old boat. Its idea for sailing up to moorings but you need an autopilot because it wont hold its course withoutm one

 

[Morpheous]

When I first started it was sailing from Chepstow in a Hunter 26 with an unreliable Honda outboard. It would always start stone cold but never when even slightly warm so numerous times I had to sail onto my mooring in Chepstow. You learn fast like that but its an easy thing to do in a handy boat. After all, thats what sailors have done over the centuries.
As time has gone on I have sailed into moorings and marinas in all sorts of locations from the med to the IoW. But when it comes to lock gates the only answer is a tow. I have been towed into Cardiff and several times I have towed other boats in after races. There will almost always be some taffic in and ouyt and they will help you with a tow.
The key is to get some practice in. Try sailing up to the ,marker buoys in Cardiff bay . Calling the RNI or the coastguard is a last resort and an embarrassment.

I'm not sure I agree with 'last resort and embarrassment'. I have called them on varous occasions, once with trouble brewing and another time when actually sinking. Everytime they have been most polite, helpful and curteous. The trouble brewing situation, was the one I referred to above, no mayday or pan pan, just a vhf conversation. They called the barrage and warned them so when I get there I had lock open and ready and exclusively for me. I think better to follow procedure and keep people informed.

 

[Refueler]

I had a terrible experience of forestay pulling out .. genny unable to furl ... Force 7 gusting 8 ... pushed onto sand bank ... outboard flooded ...

I called CG - NOT Mayday or Pan ... but just direct as a 'normal' VHF call ... THEY made decision as to best action.

Call was like this :

Me : Solent CG - this is yacht XXXXXXXX - I am in difficulty of Bembridge ledge, engine not working and sails not under control... OVER

SCG : Yacht XXXXX Lifeboat dispatched please standby for their call OVER

Lifeboat came out and as conversation to Cox after - we provided ideal training for them to use Rocket Line and towing to get us of the bank they could not approach and into harbour.

I always felt guilty about their time spent rescuing us - but in reality .. as the Cox said - it gave good training for his 'team'.

I have to say - that I've fired Rocket Lines as a Cadet in MN ... but the guy who fired that one that day literally hit my mast - he was that good !!

 

[Snoopy463]

I lost a drive coupling approaching cardiff outer harbour. The Barrage got upset when I apologised for not going into lock and wanted me to notify the RNLI vi the CG. I refuted their suggestion and fixed it eventually after maybe 20 minutes and crawled in. ( I wasnt right in the entrance blocking it)

I reckon someone would have towed me in eventually, certainly a Pan Pan is legitimate in those circumstances if nothing else can be done

I once had a bit of a run in while exiting the barrage. Motored in and stopped the engine as required. Lock dropped and gates opened. Starter would not turn. Called up barrage control and advised them. Requested that I stayed in the lock and maybe go up and down a few times while I sorted the problem. I was told in no uncertain terms that this would not be allowed and suggested that I asked someone for a tow out. Like an idiot I did as asked and a friendly mobo (there are quite a few about) gave me a tow out to the Wrack cardinal. After the tow, I turned left and made my way up channel in a reasonable tide but dropping wind. Luckily the old 2QM15 had a hand starter and I got the engine running by about North Cardiff buoy. Worked out ok but I should never have exited the lock in that condition, moreover barrage control should never have insisted that I went to sea in that manner.

 

[38mess]

I once had a bit of a run in while exiting the barrage. Motored in and stopped the engine as required. Lock dropped and gates opened. Starter would not turn. Called up barrage control and advised them. Requested that I stayed in the lock and maybe go up and down a few times while I sorted the problem. I was told in no uncertain terms that this would not be allowed and suggested that I asked someone for a tow out. Like an idiot I did as asked and a friendly mobo (there are quite a few about) gave me a tow out to the Wrack cardinal. After the tow, I turned left and made my way up channel in a reasonable tide but dropping wind. Luckily the old 2QM15 had a hand starter and I got the engine running by about North Cardiff buoy. Worked out ok but I should never have exited the lock in that condition, moreover barrage control should never have insisted that I went to sea in that manner.

I find it very difficult to believe that barrage control would 'Insist' on you going to sea. They are lock keepers and can't force a boat out to sea.
In fact on the lock gates are big signs saying it's the skippers responsibility.

 

[Snoopy463]

I find it very difficult to believe that barrage control would 'Insist' on you going to sea. They are lock keepers and can't force a boat out to sea.
In fact on the lock gates are big signs saying it's the skippers responsibility.

So do I in retrospect, but when you are in a bit of a fluster trying to sort things out you can embark on a course of action that in the cool light of day you would never contemplate. When I was being told to exit the lock on the vhf and also this was backed up by a tannoy announcement I did as asked. I would never do it again and would advise anyone in a similar position to stay tied up on the lock pontoons. The weather conditions as I related, were benign and all ended well even though I and the lock keeper did two daft things.