Is this oil okay for my beta engine?
- Thread starter Crinan12
- Start date
eddystone
Well-known member
That’s what I use
Crinan12
Active member
Great thanks
Spirit (of Glenans)
Well-known member
Presumably you have the owners manual for the engine. The last two digits of the API spec denote the additives contained. If API CH is specified, any oil (of the correct viscosity) with that CH specification can be used. CI, CJ etcetera, will contain the same additives as CI, but with upgrades.
vyv_cox
Well-known member
API CI-4 seems to offer a lot of good properties, low TBN thanks to reduced sulfur levels in diesel and a modern additive package.
Bobc
Well-known member
That's what I use in mine.
TNLI
Active member
Beta publish a list of approved oils, so it is defintely worth reading that temperature dependent list before selecting your Golden engine syrup.
Also even if you have been brain washed by Google or Fleabay adverts into looking at another oil, make sure it's from a real good major brand company, not a bottom end unchecked source like a supermarket oil. By major brand in the UK I only use oil made by the big 6 oily players:
Liqui Moly, Mobil, Castrol, Shell or Millers.
Which oil to use should also depend to some extent on how bad, or good the oil consumption is. If it's good then stick to the list, if it's a real smoker and dripper donkey, then move up one grade and think about a last ditch thick oil like Mobil 10w60 EL, (The Extended Life version only). Some special high mileage 20w50 oils are also good but that Mobil oil is a tough act to follow!
Although I used to be a Liqui Moly fan, Mobil diesels oils are cheap at present, so I use Mobil Delvac 10w40 EXP Extra. Delvac was listed for my beloved BMC 1500, and the British Leyland oil gurus did know what they were doing with their recommended oil list.
Don't foget that the oil filter is just as important as the actual oil company and type selected. Major brands yet again, so MANN, BOSCHE or MAHLE. I think they are or should be marked made in Germany.
Mobil Delvac XHP™ Extra 10W-40 (Acea B4 diesel engine only).
Mobil 1 Extended Life 10W-60 (A3/B4)
PS: You do not really need a full synthetic oil for a non turbo donkey, and although those links above say the 2 oils are full synthetics, THEY ARE NOT REAL GERMAN STANDARD FULL SYNTHETICS, or group 3 oils like Shell Ultra which is every bit as good as the best Liqui Moly Synthoil in used oil analysis terms.
What they say is a full synthetic oil is in fact a processed and filtered dinosaur black oil. They are better than old school mineral oils, as the Hydro Crack process toughens up the base stock so that it resists high temp shearing that can thin an oil down. Shell Ultra is made from natural gas by-products and their 5w40 Acea A3/B4 is a real class act, although a smidgen less in real world test results than Liqui Moly Synthoil High Tech 5w40 A3/B4
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TNLI
Active member
Which exact oil has a low TBN, (Total Base Number), as low TBN oils need changing more often. TBN is a measure of how much detergent additives that keep a block clean and the Carbon clumps in suspension. It needs to be around 10, although the oil I use has the highest TBN figure around. Delvac 10w40 EXP Extra (Acea B4),
at 16 !!!
Also although I like API, (American Petroleum Institute), classifications, it's worth thinkg in simpler terms like the EU based Acea oil standards. It should be an A3/B4 or just B4. Some new oils like Delvac EXP Extra also have E4 & 6, but that relates more to fuel economy. Not of real interest.
A little oil class light reading:
Oil Quality Ratings explained API ACEA (mginfo.co.uk)
Look at the end for info on the Acea system.
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Bobc
Well-known member
What TNLI says is correct, however these are industrial engines used in generators and diggers. They are designed to cope with a hard life and with all manner of stuff being chucked in them. It's not a Ferrari.
ghostlymoron
Well-known member
Morris Oils do a good range of oils for older small diesels (as well as new, big ones). I use them because they are local to me and have a good reputation in the boating/classic fraternity
vyv_cox
Well-known member
Until quite recently very many of us used the recommended API CD in Bukh, Yanmar and probably most other marine engines. Its TBN is 4. There is evidence that use of a higher TBN oil, 10 or more, in cool running engines, particularly raw water cooled ones, can accelerate bore wear.
TNLI
Active member
That evidence only relates to new closer tollerance engines that are used at idle or too low a power, resulting in fuel contamination of the oil and Cabon blowby issues for the rings, liners and valve guide oil seals in particular.
The other big issue is that owners who use cheaper low TBN oils that are very popular due to the cost of both Calcium and Magnesium compounds that act as detergents, change the oil and filter far too often on average. That causes 2 issues, firstly carboard based oil filters have a uniform pore size that results in very poor filtration particle bypass efficiency at around 20 microns, WHEN NEW. The same cheap filters are incredibly good at filtering small 20 micron particles when dirty. That's exactly the opposite of what the average boat owner thinks a filter should do.
The figures quoted for oil and air filters are designed to sell them, as they only list first pass efficiency of a given particle size. Often around 96% for a diesel oil filter when new, BUT once many of the pores are partly blocked by tiny sand or metal particles, the effective pore size has been reduced, so when the filter is almost full, it might be rated as 99.5% at 20 microns. BUT all is not what it seems, cos the figure you need to look at is for 100 minus the efficiency, as that is how much gets past the filter. So when clean the filter was letting 3% past, and when nearly full, only 0.5% of the particles make it through the dirty media.
Si in that typical example the dirty filter is 6 times more efficient than a new one.
Alas, now the plot gets more complicated, cos detergent additives in nearly every modern oil are a double edged sword to some extent IF you change the oil too often. The reason is that when new oil is used the detergents are far more active than in old oil and have a nasty habit of reacting with the DZZP (Zinc based anti wear and corrosion layer), that results from the Zinc based additives that are very important in old diesels that tend to suffer from internal corrosion.
The damage done by the new detergents seems to occur during about the first 10 to 20 hours after the oil change. After that point the new oils Zinc layer starts to be baked or cooked up enough to reform.
Final new result is that on average changing the oil and oil filter too often increases wear in a very significant manner. To know more about what the new oil is doing, you need to carry out a series of actual oil sample mass spectograph and chemical analysis tests to figure out when is the best time to change the oil, and when the oil or air filter needs to be changed. 2 for 1 oil changes and larger long life oil filters are good news in reducing engine wear.
No idea where you get the raw water cooling issue from, as I've never read the extra wear that often occurs when the cyliders are not cooled correctly, can relate to the oils dtergents.
If you want to comment on complex oil related issues, please provide a link or two to good articles on the suject in hand. Bob Is The Oil Guy has quite a good number of informative articles on engine wear issues.
TNLI
Active member
They are a very small company in terms of engine oil production. Their data sheets look good, but can't be verified as no one has checked them fom any oil lab so far. They do have a good reputation, but it's mostly about their most expensive German standard full synthetic based oils.
TNLI
Active member
I'm going to paint my BMC donkey Ferrari Red next week. I was looking for high temp enamel in Signal Red, but could not find it.
The reason I purchased a fully pre abused BMC 1500, (About 37hp), was that it is like the Beta and Bukh old donkeys in that it survives bad fuel, and oil or filter abuse that would kill a new modern Yanmar. They are about 10 times more bomb proof than a Yanmar,.
If you read this whilst looking for a new engine, look at the new born againThornycroft diesels from Marine Enterprises Ltd. Great engines.
Wing Mark
Well-known member
TBN= Total Base Number.
A measure of how much acid the oil can absorb without becoming acidic
May be controlled by additives other than detergents.
My memory of BMC engines is that they tended to wear out a lot quicker than modern ones?
My parents used to have BMC cars where the engines ahad often been replaced or rebuilt before 70k miles.
And in those days engines were considered OK when they'd fail a modern emissions test by a very big margin.
A measure of how much acid the oil can absorb without becoming acidic
May be controlled by additives other than detergents.
My memory of BMC engines is that they tended to wear out a lot quicker than modern ones?
My parents used to have BMC cars where the engines ahad often been replaced or rebuilt before 70k miles.
And in those days engines were considered OK when they'd fail a modern emissions test by a very big margin.
SaltIre
Well-known member
His website content is pretty comprehensive - there's a link in his signature.
Here's his page about marine engine oils: Oil for yacht engines
syvictoria
Well-known member
I thought that cheap supermarket oil without much in the way of additives, etc. was considered desirable in what is essentially an agricultural engine? We've used Tesco own brand oil for a couple of seasons in our Beta 25, and were delighted to find API CF classified mineral oil in an Action store in NL in September for €9.99!
FairweatherDave
Well-known member
Appreciate this thread has moved to a more technical level. However for the OP when I contacted Beta a couple of years ago they simply said....
"Any 15W/40 Mineral oil should be fine. I assume you are doing a full oil change?
As long a you use Mineral or semi synthetic you will be fine." That was good enough for me.
"Any 15W/40 Mineral oil should be fine. I assume you are doing a full oil change?
As long a you use Mineral or semi synthetic you will be fine." That was good enough for me.
Wing Mark
Well-known member
Kubota say:
Engine oil should be MIL-L-2104C or have properties of API classification CD grades or higher
Engine oil should be MIL-L-2104C or have properties of API classification CD grades or higher
TNLI
Active member
COX engineering sell cheap 15w40 dinosaur oil, there is even an advert for one ultra cheap oil on that link. See if you can find a good used oil analysis site. I did previously post that the low oil temperatures mentioned are an issue, BUT many engine companies blame the expensive oils made by Mobil and Castrol in particular. Total, 100% twaddle, as its the operators fault for fitting too big an engine, or using it as a battery charger. There is no real solution if you keep using low power on any diesel that does not have a common rail injection system with an ECU to adjust how the fuel is used. Those modern injection systems have made the use of low power fairly OK.
If you do some more research you will also find that red diesel is often a big part of the bore glazing problem, as it is often contaminated and lacks the additives modern major brand fuel companies use in normal diesel fuel. Complex subject as the actual fuel contents varies from one company to another and changes from summer to winter. At low power settings high Sulphur fuel is real bad news for rings and liners. Yet those fuel companies still say it's the engine oil!
