Always think what if

[AntarcticPilot]

Yes that is a very good point indeed, if on deck on your own you really ought to be connected to the boat with a safety line - one that will prevent you falling out rather than simply pull you along in the water.
I always feel more comfortable with my lifejacket also, even though I am a confident swimmer; if I am unconscious it will save my life but not only that it has a luminous yellow inflation bag which has a light inside it to aid spotting me.

I also opted for bright red foul weather gear rather than the more fashionable black or white gear.

True story - at work, my Ship was called in to conduct SAR for a diver that was missing. We had two ships, three lifeboats, and four helicopters assigned to the efforts, and it was only when we chanced upon the man we spotted him. He was about 400 yards off the bow and only then did I THINK I could see something.
This diver had a huge inflatable device which extended in the air (see attached). If it wasn't for this device, we NEVER would have found him I don't think. So just think how difficult your head on it's own is to spot even from the bridge of a Ship which has a considerable height of eye advantage over someone in the cockpit of a sail boat at the waterline almost.

All good stuff, but I wonder if the height of eye is really an advantage in this situation? From a higher vantage point, you will be looking at an object in the sea against the background of the sea, and even a big object sticking up is still seen against the sea. From a lower viewpoint, there's a better chance of seeing something in the water against a sky background. The big sticky-up thing would be really obvious against a sky background, but it would lose contrast against a sea background and be correspondingly less visible.

I too prefer brightly coloured foul weather gear, but I'm given to understand that black kit is actually pretty visible against the sea. White, though, is bad as it's the same colour as breaking waves.

 

[Sandy]

Video

Sinks her tug (girding)

Looks like tugs are useless as anchors.

 

[Csfisher]

All good stuff, but I wonder if the height of eye is really an advantage in this situation? From a higher vantage point, you will be looking at an object in the sea against the background of the sea, and even a big object sticking up is still seen against the sea. From a lower viewpoint, there's a better chance of seeing something in the water against a sky background. The big sticky-up thing would be really obvious against a sky background, but it would lose contrast against a sea background and be correspondingly less visible.

I too prefer brightly coloured foul weather gear, but I'm given to understand that black kit is actually pretty visible against the sea. White, though, is bad as it's the same colour as breaking waves.

The height of eye really is a HUGE advantage.
I have practical experience of this, on my ship at work whenever we practice man overboard we can see him quite clearly up to about 1,000 yards (with binoculars) from the bridge that is some 20 meters up whereas our rescue boat (a rhib) requires direction from us until they're about 50-100 yards away as even the slightest significant wave height will hide him from their view point.

On a perfectly calm, glassy sea state zero perhaps there isn't a huge advantage, but I don't think you'll ever been looking for a man against a sky backdrop due to the presence of any waves.

That sticky up inflatable sausage thing could change that, but most people overboard won't have one of those.

 

[Csfisher]

Looks like tugs are useless as anchors.

In this case yes they were! But it does look like a fairly considerable tidal stream they're fighting. One might ask if they really had to leave at that time and couldn't wait until a more slack tide.

But that little tug probably only had a bollard pull of 5-10 tons. 10,000 ton ship drifting at say, 3kts is going to have a fair amount of momentum behind it though plus they're still fighting that tidal stream. I wonder if also the prevailing wind was in addition to the stream compounding the problem.

That larger red tug looked more like a 25 ton bollard ton pull perhaps but even he was struggling it would appear.

In other videos I've seen from the other angle it does appear they tried to let go the anchor, but I guess it was either too little too late or they didn't pay out enough cable to achieve adequate holding.

 

[Graham376]

Aviation standards are often brought forward, not sure they fit with pleasure sailing.
You want to try and get as near as possible to 0% risk? Of course aviation standards are gold dust.
You want to enjoy some leisurely sailing? Not sure going through a 100-page safety check list before leaving the mooring for a day sail is compatible. Pretty much as you would not take off with a 747 full of passengers with a big smile "ho-hoo now let's have some fun"
Where to put the needle in between is not so automatic, I think.

I think my only hangover is check lists. We're leaving the boat tomorrow and as usual, have list of things to do - seacocks, gas, reduce solar power, top up batteries etc. With two of us sorting things, easy to assume the other has done something.

 

[Csfisher]

For those who have the view that this doesn't apply to pleasure sailing, I hear what you're saying. I just can't agree though but each to their own.

My thought process is that regardless if you're doing something for pleasure or not, there are still risks. And as a mariner, and even more so if you're the skipper (even on your own vessel) on a shared waterway it's something you're responsible for doing.

Yes most instances when sailing is involved are probably not going to result in loss of life,but if I can avoid being pinned up against another person's boat I would rather do so. And if I was that other person, I'd like to think that they would do everything they can to prevent it happening.

I also don't think it detracts from my experience at all, if anything it keeps be occupied while on watch on my own during the quiet moments thinking through possible scenarios as a mind exercise.

And for those who say in XX number of years this has never happened to me, I find that surprising. This is the same forum where I've read "two types of sailor, those who have and those who have not run aground". Point is, anything can happen to you at any time. Doesn't mean it will, but it can.

I Reiterate, I'm not suggesting you need to remove or avoid all risks, but just be aware of them and have in your mind how you'd deal with them. Yes your motor failing is a possibility but that doesn't mean I'm going to rig an outboard as a backup motor or start requesting a tug boat every time I go in or out of a marina... I also don't need to lecture my family or even think out loud my thought process (with the exception of teaching them what to do if I were incapacitated).

Also, some pilots fly for leisure too. But they still do checklists and remain prepared. But their checklist for a light aircraft are usually only two pages of an A5 flip book so are hardly a lot. They still have fun.

 

[TLouth7]

For those who have the view that this doesn't apply to pleasure sailing, I hear what you're saying. I just can't agree though but each to their own.

And I understand your perspective, as you say, each to their own.

Part of what I find strange is your suggestion that this needs to be a somewhat constant thing. I don't need to think "what would I do if a crewmember fell overboard right now?" partly because long ago I decided what to do in a man-overboard situation, but mostly because the likelihood is so remote as to be irrelevant.

Yes most instances when sailing is involved are probably not going to result in loss of life,

I would like to offer a contrast to the necessary attitude when climbing (especially trad, winter or alpine). That is a situation where the possibility of death is also low, but only because the risk is being actively mitigated on a second-by-second basis. That requires ongoing assessment of risk in a way that (for me) sailing simply doesn't.

 

[Csfisher]

And I understand your perspective, as you say, each to their own.

Part of what I find strange is your suggestion that this needs to be a somewhat constant thing. I don't need to think "what would I do if a crewmember fell overboard right now?" partly because long ago I decided what to do in a man-overboard situation, but mostly because the likelihood is so remote as to be irrelevant.


I would like to offer a contrast to the necessary attitude when climbing (especially trad, winter or alpine). That is a situation where the possibility of death is also low, but only because the risk is being actively mitigated on a second-by-second basis. That requires ongoing assessment of risk in a way that (for me) sailing simply doesn't.

Not constant, but whenever something changes.
And something that you routine practice or plan for like a man overboard eventually becomes instinctive and requires little thought unless the situation changes dramatically - what if you were in a very narrow channel heading in to a creek for example?

 

[UK-WOOZY]

Main purpose of this thread is to share the video I just watched - but highlights a key point to me.

When sailing or watch keeping you always need to be playing the 'what if' game.

What if someone fell overboard right now?
What if my engine were to fail right now?
What if I hit a container or whale right now?
Etc.

And come up with a plan. Especially when near land or in a marina.

As demonstrated here, things can always go wrong. Sailing ship Cisne Blanco collides with bridge after engine failure.

For example, when near land I like to make sure my anchor is not lashed and it's available to be lowered at immediate notice. If I lost my engine and wasn't able to sail, I could use my anchor to prevent drifting on a Lee shore.

When in our near the marina I keep a loose fender as a roving fender so if all goes wrong I can at least make sure attempt to fend off better. Same reason I favour putting fenders out on both sides despite seeing some people do only one side when when they know what side they're berthing to.

Rescue equipment such as steps, binoculars, hand-held radios, first aid kits, sharp knives, flares, bungs etc are no use of they're at three back of a locker and not easy to reach in a hurry and in the dark. Every crew member should also know where they are and how to use them in case you're incapacitated.

In the case of Cisne Blanco, without commenting on anything subject to investigation - questions you should be asking is if their anchor was available for immediate use, and was the tug under powered for the size of the vessel and rate of tidal stream?

It's a terrible shame and I hope the damage isn't too severe. A friend of mine was the navigator on that ship a few years back, and when I went onboard in France it is a beautiful beautiful ship and very majestic under sail.

I hit a large navigation buoy in june

 

[TLouth7]

what if you were in a very narrow channel heading in to a creek for example?

I would keep sailing while I decided on the best course of action. If there is time to act then there is always time to think and then act.

 

[ProDave]

Returning to the harbour after an aborted sail in conditions we should never had gone out in. 100 metres from the harbour entrance the OB stopped, lee shore and blowing F5.

It is surprising how quick you can drop an anchor even when it is strapped in it's stowage position, and it held while we re fuelled the OB.

 

[Csfisher]

I hit a large navigation buoy in june

At least you knew where you were!

 

[Csfisher]

I would keep sailing while I decided on the best course of action. If there is time to act then there is always time to think and then act.

I'm not sure I agree with that philosophy. In UK waters in winter, the survival time in the water is only minutes. Of course with experience, your thinking time will be considerably less compared to someone with little experience.

 

[DeepKeel]

Isn't it part of the satisfaction of sailing, to put yourself in demanding circumstances and come through safely and without drama because you were properly prepared? One point not highlighted above, is the importance of briefing crew before a potentially risky situation - eg, before entering a harbour under engine, with a tide running and a headwind: a quick review of the situation makes everything much more relaxed and safe. Something like: , the transit is there, safe water is that way, we will stay on the upwind side of the channel to give us more room, if the engine dies joe will get the genoa pulling and we will run away, if the wind dies completely and it's all going to ratshit, fred will drop the anchor.

Once, entering a crowded anchorage to pick up a mooring, I was nagging the bloke on the wheel to stay upwind in case the engine died, 2 minutes later, the engine died and we sailed onto the mooring without drama. They thought it was a setup. It's not that these things happen often, but it's satisfying to think them through so that everything is more fun and less shouty.

 

[pandos]

It seems to me that the more experience and knowledge that you aquire, rather than gaining confidence that you can deal with everything that may happen,you realize more and more things that can go wrong..

For example, the 3 bolts broke from one of my engine mounts recently...I would never have considered that this could ever happen...

I already knew my mast could fall down, I could hit a container, have a fire, loose my rudder....have the engine malfunction as I passed by the leeshore at the harbour mouth...develop a leak..be hit by a ship...hit a rock...etc etc...

And now I know that paranoia is no protection from sods law.(what can go wrong will go wrong at the worst possible time)

Why do we do this madness...?

 

[TiggerToo]

From time to time, try and enjoy "what if everything is going fine"

which it usually is...

 

[Stemar]

"two types of sailor, those who have and those who have not run aground"

I reckon that, once people have been sailing a few years, the two categories are those who will admit to having run aground and liars

 

[AntarcticPilot]

. This is the same forum where I've read "two types of sailor, those who have and those who have not run aground". Point is, anything can happen to you at any time. Doesn't mean it will, but it can.

Actually, the usual statement is "There are two kinds of sailors - those who have gone aground and liars!"

 

[fisherman]

After the first few years of ignorant bliss I imagined more and more scenarios and always had something in mind. Trouble is, what actually happened was usually unforeseen.

 

[Mudisox]

I was taught, or rather, positively drilled into me that on taking over a watch, one went through the whole gamut of what "would I do if........ " Still applies to yachts and also passes the time. Some even go so far as to have drill cards as reminders.