YM and Jimmy Green Settle their differences...

toad_oftoadhall

toad_oftoadhall

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I saw YM and Jimmy Green's statement in this months YM.

A quick glance at Jimmy Green's version of events suggests they may have some grounds for complaint: "Jimmy Green sold some inferior quality chain 2 years ago and have since changed supplier" is a completely different story to the one apparently featured.

AFAIC, if you pick your articles YM is still pretty good in the main, but is fact checking really so difficult?

http://www.jimmygreen.co.uk/news/news-and-competitions/yachting-monthly-chain-article/

Yachting Monthly Chain Article
Posted on December 28, 2012 by Ali

We are dismayed by a piece of editorial in the January issue of Yachting Monthly. We feel that it is absolutely necessary to reply as the article is strewn with inaccuracies that are both damaging and unacceptable. The article refers to the testing of various chain samples. We would like to offer the following response:

We were not made aware that the sample sent 2 years ago to a customer was going to be tested.
The author failed to converse with us at any time to discuss the test or to check our chain supply details.
The chain that the author tested came from a batch which we were unhappy with ourselves and which prompted an immediate change of supply in October 2010 due to quality and certification concerns.
The chain that the author tested was manufactured in France by Vigouroux, not by Benedict Garcia (which is a ridiculous error on the author’s part).
We have now been supplying Grade 40 chain manufactured in Italy by Maggi Catene exclusively for nearly 2 years.
Maggi Catena chain is fully traceable and certified.
The article is at least 2 years out of date by the authors own admission.
The author seems to be trying to show that Grade 30 is as good as Grade 40. This is scientifically impossible.
The author did not even manage to list our address correctly. We are not from Dorset. We are from Beer in East Devon and have been since we were founded in 1981.
The author’s excuse for all these errors is that he was incapacitated for 18 months and that he checked the prices at the time of going to press. If he did check our prices, he clearly didn’t bother to read any of the up to date information on our website which is clear and unequivocal.
We believe that this sort of journalism is not just sloppy, lazy, inaccurate and inadequate, it may actually be libelous and we are therefore taking legal advice on that aspect.

Overall, we would like to take this opportunity to assure all our customers that we never accept anything other than top quality grade 40 Chain. We believe that the extra safety margin provided by Grade 40 is essential for peace of mind. Please feel free to contact us with your thoughts.
Many Thanks
Jimmy Green
 
Of course if you're a Jimmy Green customer they emailed that to you weeks ago. Suppose you are not a customer as you've only just picked up on it.

Ordered my chain and spliced warp from jimmy green in spring 2012 and very happy with it.

Cheers
 
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I notice that whilst Jimmy Green do spend quite a bit of time taking the author to task, they really don't focus too much on the faulty chain. Its all very well to change supplier but how many customers were supplied before this happened? Once discovered what did Jimmy Green do for their customers? For example, I would be interested to know how many customers were affected and how many were contacted one Jimmy Green realised the batch of chain was faulty?
 
In my opinion, jimmy green supply's overpriced chain and the same quality can be bought at half the price elsewhere. I struggle to believe people actually pay those prices.
 
silver-fox said:
I notice that whilst Jimmy Green do spend quite a bit of time taking the author to task, they really don't focus too much on the faulty chain. Its all very well to change supplier but how many customers were supplied before this happened? Once discovered what did Jimmy Green do for their customers? For example, I would be interested to know how many customers were affected and how many were contacted one Jimmy Green realised the batch of chain was faulty?
Click to expand...

+1

There should be no need, nor reason, for an individual buying a product to declare that they are acquiring it for testing. Jimmy Green's suggestion is that had they known they would have acted differently. Samples tested should be 'off the shelf' not specially selected. It smacks of Rocna's supply of specially sharpened toed and balanced anchors for test. One wonders why Vyv Cox was not contacted as soon as Jimmy Green found the batch was suspect - how many other customers are still using suspect chain, smacks of Rocna again. I suppose Rocna got away with it why not Jimmy Green? We now seem to have 2 precedents. Who next?

Jonathan
 
silver-fox said:
I notice that whilst Jimmy Green do spend quite a bit of time taking the author to task, they really don't focus too much on the faulty chain. Its all very well to change supplier but how many customers were supplied before this happened? Once discovered what did Jimmy Green do for their customers? For example, I would be interested to know how many customers were affected and how many were contacted one Jimmy Green realised the batch of chain was faulty?
Click to expand...

yes. i notice that there was no question of a recall even though he agrees that the chain he sold was sub-standard.
 
Neeves said:
There should be no need, nor reason, for an individual buying a product to declare that they are acquiring it for testing. Jimmy Green's suggestion is that had they known they would have acted differently. Samples tested should be 'off the shelf' not specially selected.
Click to expand...

JG say: "We were not made aware that the sample sent 2 years ago to a customer was going to be tested.".

I don't think JG are saying that they should always be made aware that a sample is being purchased for test purposes. They're just saying that if a two year old sample is to be tested they should be made aware.
 
silver-fox said:
I notice that whilst Jimmy Green do spend quite a bit of time taking the author to task, they really don't focus too much on the faulty chain. Its all very well to change supplier but how many customers were supplied before this happened? Once discovered what did Jimmy Green do for their customers? For example, I would be interested to know how many customers were affected and how many were contacted one Jimmy Green realised the batch of chain was faulty?
Click to expand...

+1. That's exactly what I thought as I read the OP. You saved me the effort of typing it!
 
silver-fox said:
I notice that whilst Jimmy Green do spend quite a bit of time taking the author to task, they really don't focus too much on the faulty chain. Its all very well to change supplier but how many customers were supplied before this happened? Once discovered what did Jimmy Green do for their customers? For example, I would be interested to know how many customers were affected and how many were contacted one Jimmy Green realised the batch of chain was faulty?
Click to expand...

Neeves said:
+1

There should be no need, nor reason, for an individual buying a product to declare that they are acquiring it for testing. Jimmy Green's suggestion is that had they known they would have acted differently. Samples tested should be 'off the shelf' not specially selected. It smacks of Rocna's supply of specially sharpened toed and balanced anchors for test. One wonders why Vyv Cox was not contacted as soon as Jimmy Green found the batch was suspect - how many other customers are still using suspect chain, smacks of Rocna again. I suppose Rocna got away with it why not Jimmy Green? We now seem to have 2 precedents. Who next?

Jonathan
Click to expand...


+1

They sold him the chain..... Which they know was faulty..

They have been caught out.

A case for trading standards maybe?
 
Now I would have had more sympathy if they had recalled all the dodgy chain, but they do seem to have kept quiet till it came out in the press. Mind you like others I bought my chain from other companies whose pricing was better, and had a good reputation as well.

I also strongly believe all purchases for comparative testing should be secret, this idea of only testing freebies is in my view suspect.
 
In other words, despite their premium pricing they were selling the same tat that could be had elsewhere for much less.
Good to know that price still doesn't equal quality.
 
tyce said:
the same quality can be bought at half the price elsewhere
Click to expand...

Can you point me to where? Earlier this evening I nearly clicked "Buy" on 50m of grade 40 calibrated 8mm for £280.50 (inc vat, exc delivery) from Jimmy Green. If you know where I can find the same (note, grade 40, calibrated) for £140 I'd be delighted.

Cheers,

Pete
 
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Rigger Mortice said:
Or a follow up article in YM!

Perhaps Jimmy Green should now be issuing a recall on their faulty product?
Click to expand...

Sorry but I must strongly disagree - why 'perhaps'?

Chain lasts forever, or almost so - the fact that the sample was 2 years old is not relevant. It was sold, it is still in current use, it was an 'off the shelf' purchase of a product used by others. If Jimmy Green were suspicious of the batch they should have recalled the batch as soon as they knew, not complained when found out. If they had recalled and Vyv Cox had tested then they could have been critical of Vyv. As it stands Vyv uncovered their actions (or lack of them). Good on yer Vyv!

Jimmy Green would have engendered so much better customer reaction if they had thanked Vyv Cox and YM for bringing to their and the public's attention the fact they had (unwittingly?) sold out of specification product and they would now endeavour to ensure they contacted as many customers as possible by issuing recall notices in YM and the other sailing magazines and would endeavour to contact customers individually. Instead they blame YM for exposing their, Jimmy Green's actions, and try to hide behind a series of irrelevant criticisms.

It currently reads as 'we, Jimmy Green, are the injured party - we do not care that we sold out of spec product - we, Jimmy green, feel aggrieved and if we are going to address the issue of sale of out of spec product, that we actually knew about 2 years ago, we are not going to tell anyone'.


Did the Rocna debacle teach the marine industry nothing?


One thing in Jimmy Green's favour - my reading of the Rocna debacle suggests people have short memories and forgive very quickly.

All credit to Vyv Cox and YM for exposing sale of out of specification product, let us hope they continue with such exposes, even if they are 'accidental', and are not cowed by any commercial pressures.

Jonathan
 
prv said:
Can you point me to where? Earlier this evening I nearly clicked "Buy" on 50m of grade 40 calibrated 8mm for £280.50 (inc vat, exc delivery) from Jimmy Green. If you know where I can find the same (note, grade 40, calibrated) for £140 I'd be delighted.

Cheers



Pete
Click to expand...

Credit where credit is due they have lowered the prices considerably since I last looked and it is a good price, I think you will get it a little cheaper at BGD.
 
toad_oftoadhall said:
JG say: "We were not made aware that the sample sent 2 years ago to a customer was going to be tested.".

I don't think JG are saying that they should always be made aware that a sample is being purchased for test purposes. They're just saying that if a two year old sample is to be tested they should be made aware.
Click to expand...

Really, tested or not it should have been sold as seen for the purpose intended, I'll have to remember when I buy something to inform the seller I intend to use it for what its intended for, it doesn't matter how old it is or if its to be tested.
 
ukmctc said:
Really, tested or not it should have been sold as seen for the purpose intended, I'll have to remember when I buy something to inform the seller I intend to use it for what its intended for, it doesn't matter how old it is or if its to be tested.
Click to expand...

To my mind, comparative tests should be of current, rather than historic products. That seems obvious to me but I'll try to spell it out: JG swapped from Vigouroux to Grade 40 chain by Maggi Catene. Imagine one of the other firms in the test have since swapped the other way... YM's test would have completely missed that.

Clearly the lead time of the Mag (2-3 Months?) means that sometimes they will end up reviewing discontinued product but comparing stuff from two years ago seems a bit beyond the pale.

Again if reviews of the state of the Market for a product in 2010 are useful then YM could just say in the title: "Comparative test of Chain available in 2010." Ideal for YM readers with a time machine and a credit card from 2 years back!

Essentially I'm saying reviews of product from 2010 in current mags are less useful than current product. If historic reviews are deemed useful, then the review could state clearly the date they are relevant to.
 
Sight thread drift but I have not read of grade 30 chain snapping. I would expect the deck fittings to give way before the chain. Am I mistaken?
 
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