ZigZaging
Member
Hi Angus
I'll take one for sure.
How many "takers" will be needed to be worthwhile?
YAPP ideas
- Thread starter AngusMcDoon
- Start date
Hi Angus
I'll take one for sure.
How many "takers" will be needed to be worthwhile?
Jungle Jim
Active member
Angus take a look at zero-power bistable lcd's
http://www.varitronix.com/product/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=40&Itemid=64
Once set they need no power to retain the display. Might be of some use? I'm not sure what the prices are like though.
Kerenza
Member
I think bi stable displays have a very slow refresh rate, but certainly interesting technology which we may see a lot more of in retail in the future.
AngusMcDoon
Well-known member
Looks interesting but needs to become mainstream before prices come down to YAPP levels. The small LCD panels don't take much juice - just a few milliamps, especially if the backlight is dimmed. It's the big screens that take a lot more power as found in chartplotters and radar. It's not just the power taken by the screen, they need a hefty processor to drive them.
AngusMcDoon
Well-known member
I would need to make a prototype, which I usually end up using, but in this case I wouldn't use it as I don't have a NMEA-0183 system on my boat. A PCB run is 10, 1 prototype, so that means 7-9 takers. The problem is when an idea is floated lots of people say they are interested, but when it comes to buying one, 80% back off and I can end up with a load of unsold bits. I got burnt that way with the crew watcher. There were 5 on this thread who expressed an interest in the Seatalk version of the anchor watcher, but so far I have only sent out 1. The project has now gone onto the website to gather dust with all the others.
Pladdatoo
Member
I have voiced my dismay/horror about this in the past as for one I get quite excited at the idea of Yapps and am in debt to those who have greater ability than I to bring to fruition something really useful. Therefore it is disappointing that Angus gets let with a shelf of bits when previously he was certain of covering his costs at the very least.
To prevent such a situation arising in the future ( and hopefully to secure his and others ongoing input) a deposit arrangement would surely be the way to go - At least whoever is stumping up the upfront costs has some fall back and safe guard in place.
nigelmercier
RIP
- Joined
- 20 Jun 2007
- Messages
- 16,234
- Location
- Live in Kent, boat in Canary Islands
If any of your boards have the following generic capability, I would buy a couple:
A PIC I can programme in MikroC (see http://www.mikroe.com/mikroc/pic/specification/ and scroll down to Choose your MCU). I need enough code space to decode NMEA speed and drive an output square wave at a few Hz per knot.
Opto-isolated input feeding a UART pin (for NMEA input).
An output pin driving a BJT or FET between 0V and 12V rails.
AngusMcDoon
Well-known member
The crew watcher PCB would do that but I don't have any spare. It's got an opto-isolated NMEA-0183 input to a UART enabled pin and has 2 outputs to MOSFETS switching 12V, a small MOSFET for the buzzer and a heftier one (2.5A switchable without heatsink) for the relay output. It can take a PIC 18F2xK22. You can have the design files if you like, but there's loads of space for other stuff on the PCB that you probably wouldn't use. The mounting holes are strange as well as it's designed to be attached to a 16x2 LCD panel and use its mountings, and there are only 2 holes. It would probably be better to create a new PCB and get them from ITead.
ZigZaging
Member
I'll second that proposal for sure
nigelmercier
RIP
- Joined
- 20 Jun 2007
- Messages
- 16,234
- Location
- Live in Kent, boat in Canary Islands
Yes please, no point in reinventing the wheel, and I'm just starting with FETs. Do you still have my email address?
Boreades
New member
Would there be much support for a YAPP that made a Raspberry Pi a semi-permanent on-board computer?
Perhaps with the add-on comms board so it can talk with NMEA devices?
http://uk.rs-online.com/web/p/proce...velopment-kits/7722974/?origin=PSF_431027|acc
I imagine it would need some voltage regulation so that it didn't brown out during engine starts?
The "idle" current draw of a Pi seems to be c.330mA, without a monitor turned on,
There's what looks like a good article on Pi voltage requirements here
https://learn.adafruit.com/introduc...plus-plus-differences-vs-model-b/power-supply
Does that help?
Perhaps with the add-on comms board so it can talk with NMEA devices?
http://uk.rs-online.com/web/p/proce...velopment-kits/7722974/?origin=PSF_431027|acc
I imagine it would need some voltage regulation so that it didn't brown out during engine starts?
The "idle" current draw of a Pi seems to be c.330mA, without a monitor turned on,
There's what looks like a good article on Pi voltage requirements here
https://learn.adafruit.com/introduc...plus-plus-differences-vs-model-b/power-supply
Does that help?
Pladdatoo
Member
Interesting and interested.
AngusMcDoon
Well-known member
I have thought about RPis, but for the type of YAPPs I do they have never been suitable. I have a low power boat, only a 30W solar panel and an outboard engine for power generation so I have always made YAPPs very low power consumers, typically 10mA and sometimes even microamps. It would be very easy to make a board that would allow NMEA-0183 and Seatalk to feed into and out of a RPi (and cheaper than the RS I/O board), but what then? A RPi can run OpenCPN already, and I can't think of any other application that cannot be done on a much less power hungry device.
Forty_Two
Well-known member
Apart from power, the other RPi issue is shutting down. If you use it as a PC then you expect a shutdown process but if it's doing some miscellaneous task you can't just switch it off because you will corrupt the SD card. I shut my boat monitor Pi down by sending it a text so I get a graceful power off.
The Pic route wins on these sort of projects hands down as that isn't a problem & as Angus says they can be very low power.
The Pic route wins on these sort of projects hands down as that isn't a problem & as Angus says they can be very low power.
PembrokeshirePromise
Member
I agree a deposit system would probably work - and I'd certainly be happy with that. But also I wonder if part of this is a communication issue. I've had several YAPP projects off "Angus" over the last couple of years (and excellentthey have been too) - but I only dip in and out of these forums from time to time. As such I'm aware of how easy it is to miss / lose track of what projects progress from the drawing board to actually existing - and at what point its possible to sign up / order.
Not sure what the solution is - maybe a footer on Angus posts stating what he currently has "in stock" - or the landing page on the YAPP web page saying what is currently available / being worked on. I'm sure he doesn't want to turn it into a complex stock recording job - but it might help occasional visitors keep upto speed and reduce chances of being left with bits.
AngusMcDoon
Well-known member
I don't really mind, I do it for a bit of fun, not a business. If I start making lists of what's in stock then the mods will complain again that it looks like a business and Natalie will tell me off. Leftovers encourages me to think of new ideas to use them up. Problem at the moment seems to be getting PCB's from China. Used to take 15 days but orders seems to be get stuck for weeks on end now.
Jungle Jim
Active member
I've used these since they started:
http://www.rushpcb.co.uk/
the boards are made in the Far East I think, but they make very small quantities, are very quick and not expensive.
Heckler
Active member
Just bought a vyacht nmea wifi thingy. Uses a Carambola 1 module. Seems very simple. See here for some info http://uracoli.nongnu.org/carambola.htmlWinter's coming. Time to do some YAPPing. Here are some ideas...
1) A simpler cheaper 2-way Seatalk/NMEA-0183 bridge than the one Frank Wallenwein does at Gadgetpool...
http://www.gadgetpool.de/bestellen/catalog/product_info.php/products_id/97/language/en
His is all singing and dancing, but quite a price at £200. I'm considering one that does all the basic messages but not the autopilot and waypoint stuff because it wouldn't fit in to a cheap PIC processor. Included would be wind, depth, boatspeed, GPS position, SOG, COG, log, trip, headings, rudder and temperature messages. Perhaps I could add the autopilot and waypoint messages if I moved to an ARM processor, but that's just duplicating Frank's device somewhat.
2) A 3 way NMEA-0183 multiplexer without any rate changing to keep it cheap - just 3 4800 baud inputs to to 1 output.
3) A wireless Seatalk autopilot remote version of this, so no dangly wires...
http://www.ybw.com/forums/showthrea...ot-wired-remote-first-in-a-box&highlight=yapp
Just +/- 1 or 10 degrees controls.
4) Make a version of the Seatalk anchor watcher that has buttons and a 2 line display for configuration rather than doing it by a laptop/USB...
http://www.ybw.com/forums/showthread.php?371271-YAPP-Low-power-Seatalk-Anchor-Watcher&highlight=yapp
I found this device really useful when anchoring during the summer but changing the configuration values via the computer was a bit of a faff.
5) A 2 line Seatalk or NMEA-0183 repeater with 2 buttons that can be used to select which values you want to show, in a small enclosure with a 3D printed lid, like this...
Any interest in any of those? Or any other ideas?
S
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roblpm
Well-known member
Aha very interesting. I was contemplating a pi to multiplex my ais and nmea and wifi it as the other solutions are v expensive! But reading this thread about corruption of the pi if powered off and looking at the vyacht solution I think I will go down that route. Just less than £100 I think which is a bit more than a pi but hopefully will be more reliable?! Anyone else tried one?
Can someone also explain how the volatile storeage works on the vyacht? Why doesn't that get corrupted if i just turn the power off??
AngusMcDoon
Well-known member
Well the volatile storage is in RAM and goes when powered down. Did you mean the persistent storage? If so, one of these solutions...
1) No file system - nothing to corrupt. All code is in flash and settings are in a bit of eeprom which are protected by a checksum and maybe a backup copy. If the checksum check fails settings are reinitialised to default or the backup copy is used. YAPPs are like this.
2) Read only file system. It's probably running linux. This can be loaded from a read only file system at boot.
3) Transactional or journaling file system. Big heavy solution. Unlikely to be used in a small device like this.