Yachting Monthly New Boat Tests

[snooks]

As part of YM's development I'm reviewing the boat tests as it's my chance to give them a bit of a shake up.

I've always written, what I consider to be, an honest review of boats, and the sort of review I would be interested in reading within the constraints of word counts and page numbers.

But, what am I doing wrong? What do you like and dislike? What would you change?

Obviously this is only helpful if you've read one of my tests within the last 12 months and if you can reference a new boat test that has led you to that opinion that would be great too.

Thanks

 

[TangaraToo]

Links to recent boat tests? Not sure if I've read a current one.

 

[Tam Lin]

I’d like to help you but I never read them. It’s all theory to me as I will never be able to afford one.

 

[Cantata]

I've always thought your test write-ups are pretty thorough. One suggestion I could make, though -
A lot of us sail with our partner. In my situation (and that of most of the sailing blokes I know) it's the wife who's the other one in the boat with me. Your reviews naturally reflect a Snooks-bloke's point of view. I gather (I think?) that in your own time you sail with your missus, how about getting her on board too and including her views in the reports?

 

[boatboat]

Do more of those long videos with Chris.

We want to see inside every locker.

 

[Yngmar]

But, what am I doing wrong? What do you like and dislike? What would you change?

In general, I find the tone of your tests is a bit too gentle and polite, like you're trying very hard not to offend anyone, especially the guys who so kindly let you use their boat. That's perhaps the wrong mindset. The best reviews (of anything) are written with the reader in mind. Imagine you're inspecting this boat for a good friend who relied on your opinion for a purchase decision. You'd have no qualms telling him if you thought something was a bit badly designed on that boat, wouldn't you?

Just my opinion. You asked layful:

 

[Chi34]

Length over hull
Tacking angle
Estimate of leeway?

 

[Wansworth]

Most publicity about yachts shows a man orwoman at the wheel with in the majority of the cases a nubile younger woman relaxing in or at times on a cockpit in a gentle breeze.Although these boats seem to be destined for sun lit waters and I have to Admit to being an owner of anAlbin Vega the amount of space seems to be fightenly wide open and in the case of windward word akin to mountain climbing.All the interiors seem to be addressed to being tied up or sailing in smooth waters with massive open areas.Thenthereare designs that have three double cabins with only one toilet etc.From what I have seen more critical eye should be on adequate stowage so fenders can bestowed below and there is generally a proper thought out below deck s arrangement and not just a place to have dinner parties

 

[matt1]

Great that you have asked

no idea what they are saying in this review http://saareyachts.com/en/wp-content/uploads/2016/10/Saare-Yachts-Saare41_Yacht-Test_23-2008.pdf


But I like the data that has been included and the way it is presented (stowage volumes, headroom etc) and really appreciate the details on construction. Also like the list of what is standard - would be good to have a common list of likely extras used consistently across all reviews so you can see at a glance what is and isn't included. Some of the German boat reviews have a nice format imho. For me though it's the construction details where you can really make a difference. No disrespect but a quick glance at the drawings and I can see the galley is to starboard, so general descriptions of the interior aren't that useful but what isn't immediately obvious is how is the boat built and assembled and what is your informed opinion on the construction details. You are in a better position than Jo public to glean such insights or even visit the factories.

 

[Concerto]

Personally I enjoy reading most reviews of new and secondhand boats. What I used to enjoy from the past were the group tests (?YW) of 3 to 5 similar yachts over a long weekend. This also included a comparative sailing test, to see which sailed fastest. Today this should have a handling under engine and berthing report.

If the big manufacturers are making very similar sized boats, then potential customers would like an honest opinion on what is best to buy in a size/price range. This is definitely contrary to what a manufacturer would like to hear that a competitors boat is better. They will certainly know this already, but do not want it in print. The customer has to then rely on the opinion of the respective salesmen as to why their boat is best to buy, and finally to get the matter confused by free extras or discounts.

Many, many years ago I remember a group off road car test reported in a car magazine. There was a Land Rover, a Range Rover, a Jeep and the newly introduced Toyota Landcruiser. Toyota complained their vehicle had been mishandled as numerous welds on the body shell had cracked. They had submitted it for a group off road test and it was slammed for its construction not being able to withstand off road use like the others. I doubt if this result would ever be put in print today. That is the power the manufacturers have over the publishers. I feel this happens subtly today, making all reviews sugar coated.

So Snooks, clear advice is what potential customers want. Tell it as it is. If something is bad, then comment on it. A friend recently help deliver a new 50ft yacht and found most of the drawers were poorly made and one broke. He said the construction was almost like flat pack kitchen drawers. Something I certainly would not expect on a new yacht.

 

[[70521]]

I love the YouTube that Chris and you do, don't even think of moving away from this or changing the presenter.

More second hand boats are needed. Different types of boats for different types of sailing, I'd love to hear your review of a Boreal 47 and a Westerly Griffon, to give an example of extremes.

Few of us have the cash or time to buy a new boat, connect with the people who actually sail boats not keep them parked in the marina as their little cottage by the sea, did I really say that?

 

[davidmh]

I think you have the same problem as reviewers of new motors cars, you have to say that X's new model is better than last years otherwise the manufacturer will not let you have a boat and neither will their agents. I would like to see comparative tests between similar boats from different manufacturers. YM and YW and PBO have done those in the past. Huge photo spreads do not give me much more information than small photos so why do it, I know it makes it easier to fill your allotted space with lots of big photos.

Of course one factor you have to bear in mind is your advertising income, if you blast X's boat then X and their dealers will not be pleased and may withdraw their adverts.

David MH

 

[snooks]

I love the YouTube that Chris and you do, don't even think of moving away from this or changing the presenter.

Sadly this is out of my control as I'm a one-man boat-test band and do the sailing, photography and write up on my own.

More second hand boats are needed. Different types of boats for different types of sailing, I'd love to hear your review of a Boreal 47 and a Westerly Griffon, to give an example of extremes.

Second hand boat tests are changing too to include more boats

 

[bobgarrett]

Great that you have asked

no idea what they are saying in this review http://saareyachts.com/en/wp-content/uploads/2016/10/Saare-Yachts-Saare41_Yacht-Test_23-2008.pdf


But I like the data that has been included and the way it is presented (stowage volumes, headroom etc) and really appreciate the details on construction. Also like the list of what is standard - would be good to have a common list of likely extras used consistently across all reviews so you can see at a glance what is and isn't included. Some of the German boat reviews have a nice format imho. For me though it's the construction details where you can really make a difference. No disrespect but a quick glance at the drawings and I can see the galley is to starboard, so general descriptions of the interior aren't that useful but what isn't immediately obvious is how is the boat built and assembled and what is your informed opinion on the construction details. You are in a better position than Jo public to glean such insights or even visit the factories.

I agree with this.

 

[snooks]

I think you have the same problem as reviewers of new motors cars, you have to say that X's new model is better than last years otherwise the manufacturer will not let you have a boat and neither will their agents. I would like to see comparative tests between similar boats from different manufacturers. YM and YW and PBO have done those in the past. Huge photo spreads do not give me much more information than small photos so why do it, I know it makes it easier to fill your allotted space with lots of big photos.

Of course, one factor you have to bear in mind is your advertising income, if you blast X's boat then X and their dealers will not be pleased and may withdraw their adverts.

David MH

I don't have to say anything, and I usually criticise what I feel is daft or stupid (240v socket in the heads of the Elan 360 for example). However, while I'm onboard I'll usually feedback to the manufacturers so things I do find can be addressed in future boats.

If it will be addressed by the time someone buys one I tend not to mention it as the detail is out of date if it will be addressed I mention it saying this, if the mfgs don't care I'll just mention it. If I find something I think is dangerous or faulty I'll usually give the mfgs a right to reply.

Interesting you should mention advertising. Some time ago a Motor Boat and Yachting boat tester was honest about a manufacturer's boat, the manufacturer pulled its advertising on all IPC's titles. But then as MBY/MBM were the magazines for mobo manufacturers to advertise in. When this manufacturer pulled out they no longer had the audience reach, and everyone thought they'd gone bust! :0D

There are manufacturers that advertise, but there are many more who don't, and whether a company advertise or not is of little interest to me as I'm freelance – with indemnity insurance in place :0)

 

[westhinder]

Great that you have asked

no idea what they are saying in this review http://saareyachts.com/en/wp-content/uploads/2016/10/Saare-Yachts-Saare41_Yacht-Test_23-2008.pdf


But I like the data that has been included and the way it is presented (stowage volumes, headroom etc) and really appreciate the details on construction. Also like the list of what is standard - would be good to have a common list of likely extras used consistently across all reviews so you can see at a glance what is and isn't included. Some of the German boat reviews have a nice format imho. For me though it's the construction details where you can really make a difference. No disrespect but a quick glance at the drawings and I can see the galley is to starboard, so general descriptions of the interior aren't that useful but what isn't immediately obvious is how is the boat built and assembled and what is your informed opinion on the construction details. You are in a better position than Jo public to glean such insights or even visit the factories.

I agree with most of this. To expand on your suggestion of a common list of extra's, it is also very enlightening to cost these extra's or at least work out the price when all the essential extra's are included. This is what the Dutch magazine Zeilen tries to do with what they call the 'standard-luxury' price. Even if your own spec will differ, it gives you a more realistic price indication.
It would also be interesting to include the design brief or the part of the market the boat is aimed at and then evaluate to what extent it succeeds.
Try to make text and pictures more complementary: a good picture with subtitle will often do, so you can devote your text to what is less obvious.

 

[Blue_mischief]

At 6'5" I really need to know headroom or lack of it, but even more need to know length of berths. Some boats seem to be designed for midgets to sleep in.

 

[dunedin]

Current reports are pretty good IMHO. A few small suggestions:
- (continue to) be blunt in calling out design or construction shortcomings - not too positive
- possibly resurrect the “example alternatives” section at the end (not sur elf that was in YM or another mag!)
- give the speeds and pointing ability in real terms - ie vs True wind speed and angle, of the pointless Apparent
- in every test make clear what material the seacocks are made of - an important indication of build integrity

 

[snooks]

In general, I find the tone of your tests is a bit too gentle and polite, like you're trying very hard not to offend anyone, especially the guys who so kindly let you use their boat. That's perhaps the wrong mindset. The best reviews (of anything) are written with the reader in mind. Imagine you're inspecting this boat for a good friend who relied on your opinion for a purchase decision. You'd have no qualms telling him if you thought something was a bit badly designed on that boat, wouldn't you?

Just my opinion. You asked layful:

I appreciate your opinion, thank you.

Maybe I'm just a gentle and polite person

My mate wouldn't take me to the cleaners if he disagreed with my opinion – I have to be careful that what I write can't be taken out of context and cost me. As long as what I write is factually correct I'm in the clear. A lot of manufactures/brokers aren't too excited by what I write, I might say: big saloon, big forecabin, big aft cabin and small heads, they'll forget about the three positives and home in on the one negative...But I'm not doing my job to please them, I'm doing it to please you, the reader.

Very few boats are a pile of poo nowadays, and, in the vast majority of cases a boat test can be summed up by saying 'you get what you pay for' :0) Yes a Dufour is more lightly built than a Hallberg Rassy of a comparable size, it's also half the price. I try to have a buyer in mind (Lloyd Grossman's nasal drone – Who would buy a boat like this?) I usually to highlight a few areas that are typical of the overall impression of the boat.

There have been times when my criticism has been toned down by the editor, the problem is still mentioned or given context. Where I am critical I have photographic evidence, and it's also not fair just to highlight the bad points unless there really are no redeeming features. Sometimes the boats I sail on are pre-production, other times they are still refining areas when this is the case I'll mention it. Also thanks to Time Inc's terms and conditions, which I agree to if I accept payment, I am exposing myself to personal liability should anything I write come back and bite me (as I'm freelance).

The hardest tests to write are those for semi-custom yachts; sometimes the daft thing was the invention of the owner. Faurby Yachts was interesting, everything I picked up was met with the reply "We can change it, anything is possible".

I try to write a report that is fair and balance good with bad. But where something is bad I have no qualms in mentioning it.

 

[snooks]

At 6'5" I really need to know headroom or lack of it, but even more need to know length of berths. Some boats seem to be designed for midgets to sleep in.

Good point. Thank you.

At 6ft 5in isn't everyone a midget?? ;0)

I think we need to find a good way of showing headroom (it's one of the measurements I take, but unless it's lower that 5ft 10, or above 6ft 2in I'll rarle mention it, giving room to another feature (no pun intended). I try to include berth lengths/sizes.

I liked the example in the Saare test above.