Yachting clothing

[The Q]

Musto is now owned by Hellly Hansen who are now owned by Canadian Tyre.
Yep a Canadian petrol filling station and tyre company that expanded into other things.
So Musto is just another profit centre, don't expect good things anymore, everything is made to maximize profit.

 

[Chiara’s slave]

Really, this comes down just to personal taste. And actual requirements. All the boats I sail have water coming at you like a fire hydrant. I’ll pay what it takes to remain comfortable.

 

[Daedelus]

The downside of having really good waterproof gear is that my regular crew claim their kit is not good enough to stand at the helm and get rained on or hit by heavy spray whipped across the boat. This means I am forced to helm in bad weather.

 

[John_Silver]

I may just have been unlucky enough to end up with a “Friday afternoon” MPX suit, when I bought my last set of Musto's in 2015. BUT the fabric layers on mine are now delaminating - the ‘puckering’ / ‘blisters’ in the foreground of the picture. Which I’m linking (rightly or wrongly) to deteriorating breathability. Also, potentially, to the 'wicking' which seems to occur, through the seat reinforcement, when sitting on a rain / spray soaked side bench:



Hence my openess to alternatives, like the Guy Cottens.

 

[Daydream believer]

I may just have been unlucky enough to end up with a “Friday afternoon” MPX suit, when I bought my last set of Musto's in 2015. BUT the fabric layers on mine are now delaminating - the ‘puckering’ / ‘blisters’ in the foreground of the picture. Which I’m linking (rightly or wrongly) to deteriorating breathability. Also, potentially, to the 'wicking' which seems to occur, through the seat reinforcement, when sitting on a rain / spray soaked side bench:

View attachment 180684

Hence my openess to alternatives, like the Guy Cottens.

So cost divided by 9 years equals what?
Then take cheaper gear & divide by the 3-4 years it lasts & compare the cost per annum
Take in to account how much better to wear the more expensive stuff usually is. collar design,sleeve cuffs, pockets etc
I know that my Gill stuff does not feel anywhere as good to wear, so I only use it for walking ashore.

 

[Chiara’s slave]

Guy Cotten obviously put thought and effort into their gear. I daresay it is very robust, though whether it will do more than 9 years I couldn’t say. Not suitable for active types of sailing, I think. We did 9 gybes in the last 200m to the finish line today, and broke free of a 5 boat gaggle, having pitched in there from behind. I was still condensation free in my HPX gear. I doubt I’d have been agile enough in Guy Cotten, but, if you’re parked on the helm in the pissing rain, it’s probably the absolute business.

 

[lustyd]

I may just have been unlucky enough to end up with a “Friday afternoon” MPX suit, when I bought my last set of Musto's in 2015. BUT the fabric layers on mine are now delaminating - the ‘puckering’ / ‘blisters’ in the foreground of the picture. Which I’m linking (rightly or wrongly) to deteriorating breathability. Also, potentially, to the 'wicking' which seems to occur, through the seat reinforcement, when sitting on a rain / spray soaked side bench:

View attachment 180684

Hence my openess to alternatives, like the Guy Cottens.

Delamination doesn’t affect waterproof or breathability but I agree it’s not pretty. Goretex offered a lifetime guarantee at the time so if you have your receipt you’ll get a free new set. Quite good value some would say.

 

[lustyd]

Musto is now owned by Hellly Hansen who are now owned by Canadian Tyre.
Yep a Canadian petrol filling station and tyre company that expanded into other things.
So Musto is just another profit centre, don't expect good things anymore, everything is made to maximize profit.

The kit is still arguably the best available though. I can attest to their quick dry fleece lined pockets for winter sailing.
“The best” only gets better if someone makes it better. The best only gets worse if it gets worse. Neither has happened from what I can tell.

 

[John_Silver]

Guy Cotten obviously put thought and effort into their gear. I daresay it is very robust, though whether it will do more than 9 years I couldn’t say.Not suitable for active types of sailing, I think.

Agreed: Only time will tell, on durability. Early days yet. But (@Daydream believer), at the price, the GC’s only need to go to 4 and a half years to ‘beat’ the Mustos on value.
Got to disagree with: “not suitable for active types of sailing.” The breathable, modern, Guy Cotten gear (not the yellow trawler kit, which they still offer commercially) is specifically designed for active sailing. Something that the French know a lot about: Charles Caudrelier was wearing their kit, aboard the Ultim trimaran Edmond de Rothschild, on the round the world race, earlier this year. And I reckon his work rate is pretty high! The Guy Cotten staff I talked to were keen solo, offshore, Classe Mini 6.5m sailors. A pretty active discipline.
The cut of the jacket in particular, seems to allow better freedom of movement. For me anyway.

 

[wonkywinch]

As for the Gortex scam ..

 

[The Q]

The kit is still arguably the best available though. I can attest to their quick dry fleece lined pockets for winter sailing.
“The best” only gets better if someone makes it better. The best only gets worse if it gets worse. Neither has happened from what I can tell.

Till the accountants start the penny pinching on materials and methods.

 

[Chiara’s slave]

As for the Gortex scam ..

And yet it still works. My waterproof was dry inside yesterday after a considerable workout at 25c the outside was soaked. I havenkt carried out any scientific tests, just worn it. When people like that on youtube mention a brand name, I get aclittle suspicios. Nowt wrong with Columbia gear, nor many other breathable waterproofs. But that is ‘advertorial’.

 

[lustyd]

As for the Gortex scam ..

Goretex is great stuff. Regardless what people are being paid to say on YouTube those of us who have it know it’s better than what came before. Perhaps newer better things are coming but that certainly doesn’t make GoreTex a scam.

 

[lustyd]

Till the accountants start the penny pinching on materials and methods.

Well Musto were bought out in 2017 so if it was going to happen it would have happened by now. All we’ve seen is a move away from real GoreTex to in house fabric that’s identical. The HPX and MPX remain unchanged albeit with slight design improvements.

 

[Dutch01527]

Most of the leading name technical used to be small niche companies where quality and practicality were paramount to their success. Manufacturing was undertaken locally in their home country and the Directors were close to the customer and all aspects of the business.

They grew to be fashion brands driven by profit with manufacturing in offshore locations. They are now managed by clothing industry professional business people. Dubarry and Musto are prime examples but there are many others. In many case the quality is a poor shadow of what it used to be.

I have expanded my range of options somewhat. I am a big fan of Holebrook wind proof jumpers, Colombia waterproof smocks and timberland deck shoes.. My best buy was new two old stock Puma Jackets for £50 each. A full blown off shore jacket and a coastal jacket. Quality is as good or better than the HPX and MPX ranges. Shame Puma pulled out of the sailing market as quickly as they entered it.

 

[lustyd]

Musto are prime examples but there are many others. In many case the quality is a poor shadow of what it used to be.

I'm ignoring Dubarry since many people dislike the new bonded soles, but can you please give just one example of how a current HPX is worse than an older version of the same? This generalised "it's not what it used to be" is just old men shouting at clouds until there's a tangible example. I find the current range far superior in design and construction to the older stuff, and the fabric hasn't changed.

 

[Chiara’s slave]

I'm ignoring Dubarry since many people dislike the new bonded soles, but can you please give just one example of how a current HPX is worse than an older version of the same? This generalised "it's not what it used to be" is just old men shouting at clouds until there's a tangible example. I find the current range far superior in design and construction to the older stuff, and the fabric hasn't changed.

Even though new models are just tiny tweaks now, they can still make small improvements, and they do. Much of the donkey work was indeed done when they were much smaller and more dynamic businesses, but then some things are done better by larger, better financed bigger organisations

 

[Fr J Hackett]

Even though I have not bought any sailing gear for several years the thread is interesting particularly in the split between advocates of modern technical clothing which is not cheap and even the "new" Guy Cotton stuff is comparable in price with the other recognised long term manufacturers Musto et al. The other mentioned brands which are mentioned like Columbia are indeed cheaper but they are not designed for sailing and whilst some may find them serviceable many won't, in the end it very much depends on the sailing that you do as exemplified in Chiara's slave previous posts #62 & #66.

 

[doug748]

Any recommendations for sourcing economical but effective foul weather gear (i.e. no particular brand) ?

Have a look for Fladen stuff made for fishermen. They do/did a two piece with buoyancy, good but very hot and rather bulky. I also have a Biscay jacket with built in auto life jacket. Cost under £120 but supply is patchy.

.

 

[Dutch01527]

I'm ignoring Dubarry since many people dislike the new bonded soles, but can you please give just one example of how a current HPX is worse than an older version of the same? This generalised "it's not what it used to be" is just old men shouting at clouds until there's a tangible example. I find the current range far superior in design and construction to the older stuff, and the fabric hasn't changed.

A sailing partner bought a new set of MPX waterproofs about 6 years ago. His previous set had served him well for a long time. After 4 years trousers started leaking from the seams. Musto shop refused to fix as it was out of 2 year warranty. He said surely there is a life time warranty and was told not anymore.

My old HPX leather boots lasted over 12 years. New replacement purchaced 4 years ago have had similar usage and are now virtually completely smooth on the sole and not safe to wear on deck

So from my limited personal experience a 100% incidence in reduction of Musto quality.

You have no idea how old I am, why personalise a perfectly reasonable debate with your types of comment especially when my post mentioned brands that I believe still offer excellent quality?