With a midship spring line - how do I control the boat with the engine so that it glues parallel to the pontoon?

[DangerousPirate]

Tomorrow I want to try out a new maneuver I have heard about but the videos I watched on the topic never mentioned the position of the tiller position. Lets say youre coming in a lock and you lasso a cleat from your midship cleat, bring the line back and just spring it while you glide in with a neutral engine - in which direction do I put the tiller/rudder so I get parallel and can safely tie off the bow and stern lines?
Do I keep it neutral, do I point it away or do I point it towards it?

I guess Ill figure it out tomorrow once I try it out anyways but just curious right now. I cant wrap my head around how it would work properly. I feel like the bow of the boat will turn into the pontoon and the stern will swing out if you just keep it in neutral.

Any people on here who use this technique?

 

[LittleSister]

To keep the boat parallel you need the tiller to point towards the pontoon (or whatever), assuming you are moving forward and that the line is coming aftwards to the pontoon from your centre cleat.

Because the line is pulling aftwards on one side of the boat (especially from what is usually the widest part of the boat), the boat will turn around it and end up bow into the pontoon if you have the tiller central.

Usually when I use a centre cleat I will keep the engine in gear (or put it back in gear) at tickover in forward. The flow from the prop over the turned rudder will push the stern in to counteract that turning tendency, and hold the boat against the spring and the pontoon. (Note also that prop walk may help or hinder this counteraction, depending which side you're mooring to.) Unless you are in gear you may find the boat bounces backwards once the spring is taut, or you just drift away from the pontoon either or both ends. With the engine in tickover, the boat is held nicely in position, and you can prepare and attach bow and stern lines at your leisure, just putting it into neutral when you are properly secured by lines. You can do the same when you are casting off, if it suits.

This using the engine and rudder to hold the boat is easy to achieve on most boats, but I did have one (a long keeler with a keel hung rudder with prop cut-out) where I could never get enough inward turning effect to counteract the bow in tendency. If I raised the engine revs it just pushed the boat forwards and bow in harder still.

 

[Poignard]

[...]

This using the engine and rudder to hold the boat is easy to achieve on most boats, but I did have one (a long keeler with a keel hung rudder with prop cut-out) where I could never get enough inward turning effect to counteract the bow in tendency. If I raised the engine revs it just pushed the boat forwards and bow in harder still.

I wonder if your midships cleat could have done with being moved forward a bit.

My Twister (a long keeler with a keel hung rudder with prop cut-out) behaves perfectly using a midships spring.

 

[LittleSister]

I wonder if your midships cleat could have done with being moved forward a bit.

My Twister (a long keeler with a keel hung rudder with prop cut-out) behaves perfectly using a midships spring.

Quite likely.

I'd always intended to rig up a line bow to stern down one side, with a fixed loop in the middle which I could move backwards and forwards to see where was the optimum location for my 'cleat' (actually just a gunwhale mounted fairlead, with the 'spring' rope taken back to the genoa winch), but never did get round to it.

 

[Poignard]

Another simple technique that works well is to rig a bow fender before entering the marina. Then motor slowly up to the walkway and, leaving the engine in gear, put the tiller towards the catway and hold it there (I have loop of shockcord on each side of the cockpit for that). The boat will stay put while you step ashore and secure lines.

 

[john_morris_uk]

Steer away from the pontoon/walkway and engine in gear. Simples.

If you do this on a pontoon/harbour wall where there is tidal current flowing you might need more than tick-over in f’wd.
If there’s a breeze blowing you off as well, you sometimes need LOTS of revs to hold you still against the side. Once or twice I’ve thought a boat had settled and stepped ashore to sort out lines, but had to make a hasty retreat to increase revs..

 

[Amulet]

With my long keeler the bow points in to much and the stern swings off. The trick is to put the warp on the sheet winch not the midship cleat. Exception when the wind is blowing hard off the berth, when the midship cleat is better.

 

[ean_p]

I wonder if your midships cleat could have done with being moved forward a bit.

My Twister (a long keeler with a keel hung rudder with prop cut-out) behaves perfectly using a midships spring.

to'ther way round me thinks.....forward of the mid line brings the bow in more and further aft of mid line brings the stern in more...all other things been equal.

 

[Slowboat35]

If the technique seems not to work on your boat then adjusting the position of fenders can restore order. The relative positions of the restraining rope (ie centre cleat position and the contact point on the quay (usually max -beam) are all-important. Draw a little vector diagram and it all becomes clear. Moving fenders moves the contact point.

 

[Refueler]

As LittleSister posted ......

I put midships line and then leave engine idling fwd and tiller angled slightly to dock ... meaning if stbd side to - rudder is trying to turn boat to port.

The midships cleat is best if just a bit more fwd of midships pivot point .... because if the stream is running against you - if cleat is on the pivot point, boat can have bow bear off a bit putting boat at angle. But if cleat is slightly ahead of pivot - then it helps to keep boat alongside.

Moving on - the same cleat can help you depart ... many a time I have been alongside dock / pontoon between boats .. if thaey are rafted - it can be a bit of a squeeze getting out. So have guy on board tend midships line (doubled back of course) ... use low engine and cause boat to pivot bow in ... stern out ... or vice versa whichever suits you best .... combined with ferry glide - you can get out without any need to hand off from other boats ...
Did that by sail (part genny) at Folly Inn once when my engine had failed - had rafted boats fore and aft of me .. onlookers waited to see disaster ... ? . As I sailed away - they applauded !!

 

[Refueler]

to'ther way round me thinks.....forward of the mid line brings the bow in more and further aft of mid line brings the stern in more...all other things been equal.

Pity I'm over her in Baltic ... can demo the more fwd cleat advantage. If you are moving fwd and cleat is aft of pivot - that can allow bow to swing out defeating the game.

 

[Poignard]

to'ther way round me thinks.....forward of the mid line brings the bow in more and further aft of mid line brings the stern in more...all other things been equal.

I'm sorry but I don't agree.

 

[Refueler]

I'm sorry but I don't agree.

That's two of us !!

 

[RupertW]

That's two of us !!

That’s weird - I’m with the first idea. To exaggerate the thought - if the midline was as far forward as the forward cleat then the bow would be dragged in even with a long line.

 

[john_morris_uk]

That’s weird - I’m with the first idea. To exaggerate the thought - if the midline was as far forward as the forward cleat then the bow would be dragged in even with a long line.

It would - but how far depends (to a degree) on the shape of the boat and the effect and size of the rudder and how much water the prop is pushing past the rudder to act on it. Then you add in current and wind and there's no definitive answer except that with a line f'wd of the pivot point and widest part of the beam, there is a tendency for the bows to be pushed round towards the pontoon, especially as you come alongside and put the line on... In my experience anyway.

 

[Poignard]

That’s weird - I’m with the first idea. To exaggerate the thought - if the midline was as far forward as the forward cleat then the bow would be dragged in even with a long line.

It would if the tiller wasn't held over towards the pontoon.
The resulting prop wash counteracts the tendency of the spring to pull the bow in.

 

[Topcat47]

I've been doing this myself when single handing for years, using a short line from the midships cleat. I come in slowly, hook up, switch the engine off and hold the boat alongside with just the centre line. With Fenders fore and aft of the cleat the boat will try to pivot around the middle but hopping off onto the pontoon and securing the Bow and stern lines will keep it in place while you organise the springs. Of course this is unlikely to be a solution for a 50'er but for my wee Nich, it's it's ideal.

 

[neil1967]

We almost always use a midship cleat when coming along side our home berth, which is starboard side too (40' yacht). We have a spring made up to the correct length so the mate just steps ashore as the midship cleat comes abreast of the cleat on the end of the pontoon and drops the loop of the spring over the pontoon cleat. I then put the rudder over to port so the nose of the boat is tending away from the pontoon. if we have adverse wind or tide pushing us off the pontoon I will actually increase power and the thrust of the prop will hold us against the pontoon while the mate and I then attach the other mooring lines at our leisure.

 

[laika]

The resulting prop wash counteracts the tendency of the spring to pull the bow in.

I second the "It depends on the boat and the position of the midship's cleat" notion. The "standard method" works fine with most boats I've sailed. With my boat, a centre line from the midship cleat, wheel hard over away from the pontoon and tickover ahead will, in calm or moderate conditions result in the stern drifting out. Being a centre cockpit I don't have a straight lead from the primary winches to pontoon cleats but running a line through a block attached to base of the next stanchion back from the midship cleat tends to yield the desired result.

 

[johnalison]

A centre cleat will be the right compromise for most boats. I can't imagine doing it, but with a long enough pontoon a single line from a stern cleat will achieve the same effect. Whether a bow attachment works will depend on the boat. We have our shore lines left on a geriatric pole, ie a plastic tube with a rowlock on top, at the end of the finger and pick up both centre and stern lines. If I were on my own it would depend on the wind direction. With a friendly wind the short stern line alone would suffice and prevent me overshooting. With an off-pontoon wind the centre cleat would be more effective.