Who should be blamed in this collision???

[dancrane]

I agree with Fireball. I'd like to say I'm all in favour of reaching a positive conclusion, loaded with sensible advice and infallible notions of good-seamanship, here...

...but the difficulty which strikes me, is that daft rivalries, unhinged spirit of competition, and spirits in bottles, don't respond well to notions of good sense. It's necessary to scare idiots into safe practice. So, name and shame this chap. If the crew won't point their fingers, they're all as bad as whoever actually chose the course and stuck to it too long.

 

[Scotty_Tradewind]

Better to educate and make the obvious even more apparent is what I'm suggesting.

As you made clear, there are enough reg's in place already. That means better knowledge or understanding possibly the way forward.

What positive suggestions would you make towards this Fireball?

 

[fireball]

What positive suggestions would you make towards this Fireball?

Only one springs to mind .... LOOK WHERE YOU'RE GOING !!

 

[dancrane]

QUOTE (Fireball): ...one springs to mind .... LOOK WHERE YOU'RE GOING !!

Hear, hear!

 

[Scotty_Tradewind]

Only one springs to mind .... LOOK WHERE YOU'RE GOING !!

Ah, very good.
I thought you may have suggested the skipper being hung drawn and quartered with his head on a post as a message to all, the way you've been repeatedly making your point.

 

[Poignard]

Perhaps some positive points would now be more approprite and in keeping rather than continueing our criticisms?

Two positive points:

• collisions between ships and yachts are very rare - especially in the Solent
  
• after this widely publicised incident they will be even rarer

 

[fireball]

Ah, very good.
I thought you may have suggested the skipper being hung drawn and quartered with his head on a post as a message to all, the way you've been repeatedly making your point.

No point doing that - he won't suffer the embarrassment if he's not around to hear/see it ...

 

[dancrane]

One would think that the Navy-backdrop here would insist on this skipper admitting a degree of brainlessness on his own part, rather than colour all of the yacht's wholly RN crew.

If, alternatively, it's to be taken as a shared mistake, or one that no individual may be labelled with, what does that say about RN seamanship, collectively? I'd think it's a matter of honour that the skipper on the day, admits all.

 

[Poignard]

Was this a service yacht? Was he on duty?

If not, why should his 'employer' get involved in any way?

 

[FishyInverness]

Was this a service yacht? Was he on duty?

If not, why should his 'employer' get involved in any way?

Doubt it was, but I think the inference being made is that to be high up in the RN, the skipper would logically be expected to be able to comply with regulations and not make a risky decision.

Same as if a pilot who flies commercial 747's for a living, if he decided to underfly the Forth Road Bridge in his personal light aircraft one weekend, would be viewed with a critical eye by his peers IN VIEW of his profession...

 

[Twister_Ken]

One thing's for sure. More people will be keeping a 360º lookout from now on!

 

[dancrane]

QUOTE: I think the inference being made is that to be high up in the RN, the skipper would logically be expected to be able to comply with regulations and not make a risky decision.

Thank you, FishyInverness, that's exactly what I meant.

One might expect someone to cock things up magnificently at some point, but if there's one crew we might hope would never, ever break basic rules and make a jaw-dropping public spectacle of their incompetence, surely that'd be the RN?
Hence, let the skipper's name be known, rather than let his individual daftness stain his whole crew and the noble service behind them.

 

[Poignard]

Doubt it was, but I think the inference being made is that to be high up in the RN, the skipper would logically be expected to be able to comply with regulations and not make a risky decision.

Same as if a pilot who flies commercial 747's for a living, if he decided to underfly the Forth Road Bridge in his personal light aircraft one weekend, would be viewed with a critical eye by his peers IN VIEW of his profession...

Some of the Navy's finest were not very good at complying with regulations. Nelson and Cochrane, for example.

Anyway, I think I would rather have our armed forces staffed by the sort of people who are willing to take risks, even though it may sometimes result in disaster.

 

[FishyInverness]

Some of the Navy's finest were not very good at complying with regulations. Nelson and Cochrane, for example.

Anyway, I think I would rather have our armed forces staffed by the sort of people who are willing to take risks, even though it may sometimes result in disaster.

I agree completely, in the course of their military function. Not in the course of a race where no-one's life depends on that risk.

 

[Scotty_Tradewind]

Some of the Navy's finest were not very good at complying with regulations. Nelson and Cochrane, for example.

Anyway, I think I would rather have our armed forces staffed by the sort of people who are willing to take risks, even though it may sometimes result in disaster.

+ I can become a lot more forgiving to those who unitentionally caused an incident in their civilian activities, if in their day to day job they could be called upon to put thir lives on the line for me and country.

I see no advantage to be gained by the' lynch mob' getting their way as replicated by the tabloids of late.

 

[Leonidas]

The most important thing after their having been no serious injury or death, is to put measures into place that minimize this close encounter happening again.
?

Absolutely. There are other contributing factors to this incident, not just the skipper's apparent recklesness and facts are yet to be made available to the public domain so that we can all make an informed judgement. Perhaps it is about time that RYA takes some interest in this ???

 

[Fire99]

I can't see how the RYA or any other organisation taking interest, would help anything.

If a skipper wants to be a tit and play chicken with a ship then they're going to do it regardless.

 

[dancrane]

QUOTE (Scotty Tradewind): I can become a lot more forgiving to those who unitentionally caused an incident in their civilian activities, if in their day to day job they could be called upon to put thir lives on the line for me and country.

I'm not sure that argument adds up. "Gosh, how heroically reckless!" or "Let them take life and death chances, they've earned it!".

Not a great example for the young, either. And I'd imagine most senior RN officers were cringing at these chaps' foolishness, and at the wider feeling that a Navy crew damned well ought to know better.

 

[maxi77]

Try pitchpoling a Laser in five feet of water! Before the days of phone-cameras and Youtube, unfortunately...

It was mis-handled, magnificently, I admit. I'd never seen a Laser go transom-over-stem, that way, and I still haven't, but I'm told it was spectacular...

Lower mast destroyed, luff ripped.

Saw that done at Reading Sailing Club many many years ago from the safety boat, picked up the rather bedraggled driver at the time and managed to get the mast intact out of the clay between races. Was just a little windy.

 

[Poignard]

Well it could have been a lot worse. He might have put a warship under the merchant-ship's bow.

It's happened (HMS Curacao and RMS Queen Mary in 1942)