who is making the money?

[gjgm]

How does this new boat pricing work ? If we leave aside pricing due to trade ins,demo boats,few freebies maybe, etc etc. The dealer commonly has to pre-order the boats from the manufacturer? maybe with or without a buyer? So what margin is he putting on to the manufacturers price, and how much profit margin is the manufacturer making ,pct wise? I guess pre-ordering 10 boats gets a better deal than ordering just one, but what stops dealers for same models competing downwards. in price.. is there another Volkwagen-type scandal here?
I accept the dealer has to offer the sales support etc afterwards, and is (well, maybe) entitled to make a living at our expense. But looking at how much a boat costs (any size)where is all the money going? Manufacturers seem to come and go, so it cant be all plain sailing..as it were !

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[martynwhiteley]

It's interesting to think that most of the boats we buy in the UK are built either here or in North America.

It must be just about the only product group to which this still applies.

I know in my job (I know that's surprising Martyn, but I do work a bit now and again!), trying the build large process plants, power stations etc. that most components now come from India, China, Poland etc. The only fully westernised country that seems to be able to compete in my industry is Italy. The price of construction labour in New England for example has got so bad, that $1.2 Billion has been lost building just two power stations in Boston, and even with our cost of labour here at Immingham, we can sell into Boston, chaeper than home grown US companies.

Yet the US still supply us with the cheapest boats.

I think that the impressive looking Galeon range is built in Poland where labour costs 1/5th of that in UK, and I bet they could sell them a lot cheaper, but we Brits prefer to pay over the odds for a FairPrinceseeker.

When India starts to make 36ft Fly's, with their labour at 1/10th UK cost, maybe we can all afford a new Rogan Josh 360, with twin D6's /forums/images/icons/smile.gif



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[duncan]

it would appear that there is more than one model behind it all; and some big differences between those models.
mostly these have come about to mirror the way a manufacturer works in his home market - but where that is a long way from the new market (not in distance!) he may try a new model.
Core is whether the distributor is an agent of the manufacturer for sales (franchise/contracted/employed) or simply a boat sales operation that enters a contract to distribute a manufactures product into a particular market.
Within these can be extremes of full marketing responsibilities on the one hand to full manufacturer funded marketing; warrantee responsibility or costed back to manufacturer and as for stock or built to order - again there are vast differences!
As you highlight these can all have a significant impact on costs - where the manufacturer is responsible for all marketing costs, warrantee work and boats are on a built to order basis you would expect to be able to negotiate a cheaper price when demand is low because the sales staff are negotiating against a fixed margin and, as you point out, the relationship is not necessarily for ever. At the opposite extreme you could expect that the mutual long term relationship between builder and distribution will maintain prices but you have two parties both interested in sorting problems quickly and probably solid brokerage services and trade ins etc which are built on this, not to mention the availability of new boats even when demand is relatively high.
problems occur when you try to compare the two extremes (although not all are at the extremes) - or don't appreciate which you are getting!

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[Alistairr]

A TATA with a flybridge/forums/images/icons/laugh.gif/forums/images/icons/laugh.gif

That would be interesting...



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[duncan]

Galeon is a good example - and which of the two UK 'importers' do you buy from and which will be cheaper....Tameside or Marine Sales?

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[jhr]

I'm no economist, but I wonder if the lack of suppliers in third world countries has anything to do with (a) the lack of a market for expensive luxuries in such places, hence no initial home industry or expertise to build on (a leisure boat ain't exactly your first priority when you're struggling to feed yourself and your family) or (b) the fact that even the very biggest boatbuilding groups aren't really huge multinationals, with the possible exception of Brunswick, and don't have the massive resources needed to set up a greenfield operation in the third world.

India could be interesting; it has the largest educated Middle Class in the World and, although their incomes are small in relation to those of their opposite numbers in the First World, there is huge potential for the future. Dunno about the Rogan Josh 360, however. India's current cutting edge car is a Rover Montego with a turbo diesel, which is just shading out the Hindustan Ambassador (a.k.a. Austin Cambridge) as the must-have automobile for Bombay's boy racers. I fear the RG 360 may, therefore, be based on a 1960's inland cruiser (Seamaster p'raps) with a nice Stuart Turner under the cockpit.

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[martynwhiteley]

Thinking a bit further, unless I'm missing something, how have the Japs avoided getting into the cruiser building sphere?

Sure they make then best outboars, many good diesels, no doubt a few PWC's.

But they seem to have to tie-up with the likes of Fletcher etc. to provide anything in large bits of white plastic.

Now a Subura F360, or a Mitsubishi EVO Targa 42, a Honda S2000 surface drive...
........Mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.



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[Wiggo]

The Rogan Josh 360 would indeed be a fine seagoing boat, but many buyers may well be put off by the red and gold flock wallpaper in the saloon, and the bowls of Bombay Mix, rather than the more usual pineapple found on display models.

Does anyone know why boat builders feel obliged to put pineapples on show boats, BTW? If you don't believe me, look at the BMB ads...

SWMBO went to sea for most of last year with various pineapples aboard, as apparently it makes us sophisticated, so she claimed.

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[duncan]

........and I thought red wine with steak was sophistication............../forums/images/icons/smile.gif

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[martynwhiteley]

Rogan Josh 360 money?

Yes, I take the point about the wallpaper, but the Bamboo decking is a nice touch.

However don't forget the Vetus vapour trap option on the holding tank is a necessary option, but you can forget about the macerator....




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[jhr]

Interesting point. I suppose (stereotypes ahoy!) the fact that the Japanese have always been an introspective nation and historically allowed traders to come to them rather than vice versa, means that there is no historical tradition of seafaring (also true of India, maybe?). Therefore no transition to leisure yachting etc. etc. Culturally, there isn't much leisure time either. "Salarymen" work long hours in the office and then go to the boozer with their boss to impress him/her and it's common for their (average 2 weeks') annual leave to be bought out by their employer.

Also, for recent historical reasons, very little defence-related shipbuilding to trickle expertise and product development down to the leisure industry? All this is complete crackpot theorising on my part; I haven't a clue really.

God help the rest of the world's leisure marine industry if they ever do get interested in competing in the market, BTW.

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[tcm]

Sophisicated? I\'ve been to Leeds!

As anyone knows, the very height of sophisication is to have burgundy-coloured rope rails ariound the bed, and in the dining room. All the top stately homes have this as standard. Myself, I even have "do not sit on the seats" signs exactly like in the boat shows, and attempt to deter the family from coming on board until 5pm tomorrow, when it should be less busy.

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[MedDreamer]

Why do we never see price "undercutting" advertisements in the mags?. Do EU competition laws on price fixing apply to boats?. I am always bemused how the Sealine Dealers (for example) always seem to have very similar prices for new boats in the block advertisement placed in MBY amd MBM. (I am not singling out Sealine here I must add its just that because their dealers are all grouped together the lack of variance in price stands out.)

Likewise the above magazines always seem to quote firm consumer prices in their writeup. How can they dictate that price? Do the EU rules that apply to cars and football shirts not apply to boats?





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[cliffdale]

Take a look at the squadren 70 which is just a few bob short of 2 million. Where does all that money go?

Even designed and built in this country, I could have a lovely stately home built for £2m. Swimming pool, 15 bedrooms? and it would probably be longer than a miserly 70 feet.

Cd

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[gjgm]

doesnt tcm have a hotline to top brass at Sealine these days. (Probably where the do not sit cards came from) Perhaps he can ask ?

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[cliffdale]

sad isn\'t it?

I've just worked out that if I save hard enough for the squadren 70, it would only take me 200 yearsto buy it ( without considering inflation)cd. I thinks i'm in the wrong job.

CD

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[MedDreamer]

Re: sad isn\'t it?

If you can save £10K per year you obviously haven't bought your boat yet

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[cliffdale]

Re: sad isn\'t it?

Not yet, but things are happening quickly. Im giving up the mooring this weekend and moving on to the local marina. The flybridge boat has evolved in to a Targa 34 which is currently my favourite choice.

I hope to be sorted out and wizzing by end of Sept.

Cd


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[petem]

I spent a few weeks working in Bombay (Mumbai) in 2001. At the Gateway to India there were a lot of commercial pleasure boats moored. Amongst these there was one ageing flybridge cruiser. Guess what make it was......a Princess!

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[oldgit]

Luverly stately home with 15 beds,where?.Easterhouse./forums/images/icons/laugh.gif

<hr width=100% size=1>Two boats please one here n one in the Med