Which sub 37 ft yacht to cross the North Atlantic in?

[jonjo]

What tosh. Broad sweeping generalisations about boats of that era are rubbish. You claimed it was obvious that the Swan 37 rudder is too small - well if that's the case produce one bit of firsthand knowledge to support such a criticism.

Nicholson had to enlarge the rudder of the Nich 35 mid way through the production run.

The aft sections of the Contessa 32 had to fattened out after hull no 10 because the cockpit back flooded via the cockpit drains with a full crew aboard.

I was looking at a She 31 in a cradle two weeks ago, it had a very similar profile to the Swan 37. Only a fool would have considered the coupling of a slender aft counter and titchy rudder anything but a broad reach broach waiting to happen. All great fun around the cans in the Solent but 1000 miles offshore!

Re. Contessa owner love. I am sure the members of the Morgan 4+4 owners club give their weekend fun vehicles similar praise but so what. The number of tired tatty CO32s stuck on the market indicate they are over rated and over valued by their owners.

 

[Kelpie]

My S&S has a very similar rudder/skeg design to the 34, in fact probably a little compromised by the need for shallow draught. I've also got a tiller.
I'm going to do that rare thing and admit to a shortcoming in my boat. Under motor, and in certain conditions under sail, there can be a lot of weight in that helm. Also any time you have the keel up, it gets very heavy indeed. However, get the boat in the sweet, balanced, upwind groove, and you can steer with your little finger.
I'm planning on fitting my windvane this year so we will see how it copes.

 

[Motor_Sailor]

. . . .Only a fool would have considered the coupling of a slender aft counter and titchy rudder . . . .

I'm sure your new book "Olin Stephens - The fool of a yacht designer" will be a huge best seller.

Fortunately, for most people, there's a lot more to hydrodynamics than your simplistic generalisations. I've never broached a boat of that era even when 100 miles off shore. I didn't become really familiar with broaching until the later IOR era yachts with wide transoms and huge spade rudders. Our Ron Holland 44 could broach on any point of sail, but the reasons had nothing to do with it's broad transom or spade rudder. Luckily she was so badly behaved that it retired from the 79 Admirals Cup before the Fastnet race.

 

[Robin]

Westerly 33 ketch, sloop or later discus aft cockpit version, wheel steered with emergency tiller in case. DOdo's delight owned/skippered by a reverend gent in Weymouth did all sorts of long trips in his, Northern North Atlantic westbound, RTW including round Cape Horn too, with a crew of disadvantaged youngsters on board. Plenty of change for a refit too. Or a Conway 36, nice ketch one with all in-mast sails, called 'Floss' in Poole on Apollo duck site, thought hard about it as a UK condo for us, has a replacement (Vetus)engine from original Mercedes OM636, recently antifouled and launched ready to go AFIK unless now sold..

 

[doug748]

I'm sure your new book "Olin Stephens - The fool of a yacht designer" will be a huge best seller.
.

He has another with his publisher right now:

"Contessa 32 - It will never catch on"

 

[alant]

Westerly 33 ketch, sloop or later discus aft cockpit version, wheel steered with emergency tiller in case. DOdo's delight owned/skippered by a reverend gent in Weymouth did all sorts of long trips in his, Northern North Atlantic westbound, RTW including round Cape Horn too, with a crew of disadvantaged youngsters on board. Plenty of change for a refit too. Or a Conway 36, nice ketch one with all in-mast sails, called 'Floss' in Poole on Apollo duck site, thought hard about it as a UK condo for us, has a replacement (Vetus)engine from original Mercedes OM636, recently antifouled and launched ready to go AFIK unless now sold..

Will we be hearing later, about a "reverend gentleman & crew of disadvantaged youngsters"?

 

[Robin]

Will we be hearing later, about a "reverend gentleman & crew of disadvantaged youngsters"?

you tell us, you apparently frequent 'the dark web' looking for scrubbers.:highly_amused::highly_amused:

 

[thecommander]

That was Bob Shepton who did that on his Westerly. Lost the boat in Greenland. Went on fire.

 

[Saguday]

Call those fins?

Isn't this what you mean?

Ah proper cars from the good old days.

Hopefully we'll all be driving them and sailing proper boats again, after Theresa has the kids back in grammar schools and the internet all under control.

 

[Motor_Sailor]

That was Bob Shepton who did that on his Westerly. Lost the boat in Greenland. Went on fire. . . .

. . then bought another one and carried on where he left off.

 

[Bajansailor]

Jonjo, I am just wondering, have you ever sailed a 1970's S & S design?
And especially an S & S 34, or a Swan 37?
I think not, because if you had, you wouldn't be offering these comments.
I have sailed on both, including an Atlantic passage on an S & S 34, and she was just so beautifully balanced, even when pressed hard, and she never showed the slightest inclination to broach or spin out as a result of the rudder being too small.
And my pal Nick took his 34 'Scalpay' around the world on a shoe string budget very happily.
The Commander's pal should seriously consider a vessel like these, if he can find one in good condition - they eat up the miles very comfortably, and they are a joy to sail.

 

[shaunksb]

Westerly 33 ketch, sloop or later discus aft cockpit version, wheel steered with emergency tiller in case. DOdo's delight owned/skippered by a reverend gent

Oh no!

You've got me humming that bloody tune again...

____________________________

 

[jonjo]

Jonjo, I am just wondering, have you ever sailed a 1970's S & S design?
And especially an S & S 34, or a Swan 37?
I think not, because if you had, you wouldn't be offering these comments.

There is no need for personal experience, the issues are evident to those not affected by Mabby Adoration Disease.

It is well known racing rules of that period promoted unhealthy lack of hull form stability in aft sections.

Then look at the Hunter Mystery 35 which is a decent attempt to recreate a design of that era. A modern designer who had the benefit of 30 years of advance in science and hydrodynamic knowledge stuck a sensibly sized rudder on the Mystery. Nuff said.

Photo by the Red Ensign yacht brokerage.

 

[jwilson]

S&S clearly somehow got it very right in terms of handling in some of their boats, despite relatively small skeg-hung rudders. The one I remember sailing was a She 36, simply the sweetest handling boat under sail. Even under grossly unbalanced sail - Force 7 broad reach under no headsail and full main, she steered fine with no hint of broaching, and once I got on deck and made the crew reef the main we put up some headsail as well, at which point we had 10+ knots under fingertip control.

OK - Contessa 32s survived and finished the 79 Fastnet. A She 36 rescued the crew of another boat on the way..... Unfortunately good She 36s are now pretty rare, and command high prices for their age and size.

 

[thecommander]

Contessa 32s survived and finished the 79 Fastnet.

Does anybody have a list of the models that finished and didn't finish the 79 Fastnet?

 

[sailorman]

Nicholson had to enlarge the rudder of the Nich 35 mid way through the production run.

The aft sections of the Contessa 32 had to fattened out after hull no 10 because the cockpit back flooded via the cockpit drains with a full crew aboard.

I was looking at a She 31 in a cradle two weeks ago, it had a very similar profile to the Swan 37. Only a fool would have considered the coupling of a slender aft counter and titchy rudder anything but a broad reach broach waiting to happen. All great fun around the cans in the Solent but 1000 miles offshore!

Re. Contessa owner love. I am sure the members of the Morgan 4+4 owners club give their weekend fun vehicles similar praise but so what. The number of tired tatty CO32s stuck on the market indicate they are over rated and over valued by their owners.

2 yrs ago one did the Jester Challenge s/h to Newport & back, with no issues

 

[Robin]

There is no need for personal experience, the issues are evident to those not affected by Mabby Adoration Disease.

It is well known racing rules of that period promoted unhealthy lack of hull form stability in aft sections.

Then look at the Hunter Mystery 35 which is a decent attempt to recreate a design of that era. A modern designer who had the benefit of 30 years of advance in science and hydrodynamic knowledge stuck a sensibly sized rudder on the Mystery. Nuff said.

Photo by the Red Ensign yacht brokerage.

one parked next to me on it's maiden voyage trip and the owner was thinking of returning to the builder to have a load of defects sorted, not bad after less than a day sail.

 

[Robin]

Does anybody have a list of the models that finished and didn't finish the 79 Fastnet?

No but add a UFO34 called 'Black Arrow' to the list, won it's class too, RAF boat IIRC, always fancied one after that. Co34s, aka OOD34s meantime had a miserable time, wrong place wrong time. We were at sea , not racing and east of the main storm, in a Liz 30 at the time, no problems but harrowing listening to the radio traffic.

 

[bitbaltic]

Does anybody have a list of the models that finished and didn't finish the 79 Fastnet?

You could work that out from one of the more detailed books on it although I'm not sure how useful it would be. There is also a big difference between retired and sunk!

 

[Fr J Hackett]

I think there is an appendix at the back of "Left for Dead" that gives the details of all the boats and their outcomes, if it isn't that one it's one of the other classic Fastnet 79 books.