What's the RYA's response to British boats being BANNED from Belgium?

[Grumpybear]

Semi-retired old hacks don't carry much weight in the corridors of power (saving the grace of Piers Morgan, of course).

I am amazed that even a journalist of your eminent standing could contrive to include "grace" and "Piers Morgan" in the same sentence!

 

[maxi77]

I'm not sure what it is that is sold in continental marinas - could be high-sulphur, FAME-free - effectively our red diesel minus the dye...

Considering many sell to both road vehicles and boats, some certainly only sell road deisel. In reality I suspect they all sell standard road deisel.

 

[Habebty]

There are none so deaf as those who don't want to hear; none so ill-informed as those who don't want to read.

An arrogant and dismissive attitude that possibly echoes that of the RYA. If that is the case, my money might be better deserved by the CA.
I'll repeat my point that RYA Magazine is boring and uninformative to the average cruising sailor.
Clearly no one expects the RYA to send a gunboat or "sort out Belgium" or whoever, but I do expect them to offer members practical advice on what to do if we are about to be fined despite having duty paid invoices on board which I think is the only advice offered so far. I don't recollect the RYA state "do not go to Belgium"
However, James you are partially right, and it is only fair that i should give the RYA website another chance so will devote some time tonight to having trawl through the RYA website and see if it has been updated.
Some of the comments regarding not being able to visit Belgium seem a little Solentcentric, if the French adopt a similar stance and make France effectively out of bounds, I suspect the RYA might be a little more active.

 

[Tranona]

So what's the point of the RYA then? Flags & race etiquette?

Seriously I thought the BMF were the industry trade body and thus weren't open to individual members. The RYA seem to claim the individual membership. Now I'm confused.



Do we still have one? Maybe we could send in the UN

I have a real problem with this level of ignorance! No wonder you have a problem if you have no idea that the RYA is a member funded organisation - members are people who go boating and the RYA represents their interests.

If you want to get involved and be informed, pay your subscription and join.

 

[Tranona]

one does not hoard magazines
i place them in our club for those less fortunate non RYA members

Seems you don't bother to read them first! Do not criticise other people from a state of self imposed ignorance.

 

[Tranona]

An arrogant and dismissive attitude that possibly echoes that of the RYA. If that is the case, my money might be better deserved by the CA.
I'll repeat my point that RYA Magazine is boring and uninformative to the average cruising sailor.
Clearly no one expects the RYA to send a gunboat or "sort out Belgium" or whoever, but I do expect them to offer members practical advice on what to do if we are about to be fined despite having duty paid invoices on board which I think is the only advice offered so far. I don't recollect the RYA state "do not go to Belgium"
However, James you are partially right, and it is only fair that i should give the RYA website another chance so will devote some time tonight to having trawl through the RYA website and see if it has been updated.
Some of the comments regarding not being able to visit Belgium seem a little Solentcentric, if the French adopt a similar stance and make France effectively out of bounds, I suspect the RYA might be a little more active.

Cannot understand why you have so much difficulty with this. The information is available, you just don't bother to read it. The government has responded to the lobbying and is pursuing the matter.

How can the RYA (or anybody else, including our government) give "practical advice" over an issue that is unresolved? Currently the only practical advice is from the Belgian government who confirm that they may exercise what they see as their powers to fine you if you have red diesel in your tank. It is up to you what action you take in the light of that advice.

Hopefully after you have got yourself up to date you will realise what the issue is all about.

 

[Twister_Ken]

An arrogant and dismissive attitude that possibly echoes that of the RYA. If that is the case, my money might be better deserved by the CA.

Normally, I'd be the first to encourage you to join the Cruising Association, but I've just checked our website and there's no obvious guidance there on the "Belgian Question". Nor do we have a gunboat, or a fighting fund to sue the Belgian government on a member's behalf.

I will suggest that the CA says something unmissable to the membership, though.

 

[Stork_III]

Normally, I'd be the first to encourage you to join the Cruising Association, but I've just checked our website and there's no obvious guidance there on the "Belgian Question". Nor do we have a gunboat, or a fighting fund to sue the Belgian government on a member's behalf.

I will suggest that the CA says something unmissable to the membership, though.

Can you translate the last sentence for the hard of understanding?

 

[Twister_Ken]

Can you translate the last sentence for the hard of understanding?

Get it put in the next monthly newsletter.

 

[samwise]

We are out of step and have run out of wriggling room and derogation time on the question of red diesel. It may suit the view of the present government and Eurosceptics to have core voters like us peeved with the Brussels lot but it leaves us boaters in limbo.

The UK and other EU countries selling red diesel for leisure craft were given extra time after the duty standardisation regulations ( to which the government of the day agreed) came into force, I assume so that revised fuel supply arrangements, phasing out red diesel, could be made.

The others revised their arrangements, albeit slowly, but they have done it now. We have done nothing because the Brits do what they always do and try to get the rules of the game changed. Heaven knows how much time, effort and money has been spent on this hopeless task, but it meant that no one gave a thought about British boaters becoming isolated and criminalised because of the colour of the fuel in their tanks.

I don't know how much longer this futile battle will go on. A look through the Forum posts on this subject shows just how confused and frustrated everyone is. I don't want to take my family across the Channel , fearful that gun-toting enforcers will board us at any time and put us through the regulations wringer.

However much it would be nice to hang on our fuel tax break, I think the evil day can be put off no longer. In the interests of all boaters , there must be some clarity, even if it means giving up this fruitless fight.

 

[jordanbasset]

We are out of step and have run out of wriggling room and derogation time on the question of red diesel. It may suit the view of the present government and Eurosceptics to have core voters like us peeved with the Brussels lot but it leaves us boaters in limbo.

The UK and other EU countries selling red diesel for leisure craft were given extra time after the duty standardisation regulations ( to which the government of the day agreed) came into force, I assume so that revised fuel supply arrangements, phasing out red diesel, could be made.

The others revised their arrangements, albeit slowly, but they have done it now. We have done nothing because the Brits do what they always do and try to get the rules of the game changed. Heaven knows how much time, effort and money has been spent on this hopeless task, but it meant that no one gave a thought about British boaters becoming isolated and criminalised because of the colour of the fuel in their tanks.

I don't know how much longer this futile battle will go on. A look through the Forum posts on this subject shows just how confused and frustrated everyone is. I don't want to take my family across the Channel , fearful that gun-toting enforcers will board us at any time and put us through the regulations wringer.

However much it would be nice to hang on our fuel tax break, I think the evil day can be put off no longer. In the interests of all boaters , there must be some clarity, even if it means giving up this fruitless fight.

That is your view, the view of the British Government, the RYA and their legal advisors is that we are complying with the regulations.
Now in view of this do we roll over and give up or continue to fight the case through the courts. I do understand that sometimes people think the case is not worth fighting and it is best to give into the bullying and take the path of least resistance. I just happen not to agree with that approach.

 

[Stork_III]

We are out of step and have run out of wriggling room and derogation time on the question of red diesel. It may suit the view of the present government and Eurosceptics to have core voters like us peeved with the Brussels lot but it leaves us boaters in limbo.

The UK and other EU countries selling red diesel for leisure craft were given extra time after the duty standardisation regulations ( to which the government of the day agreed) came into force, I assume so that revised fuel supply arrangements, phasing out red diesel, could be made.

The others revised their arrangements, albeit slowly, but they have done it now. We have done nothing because the Brits do what they always do and try to get the rules of the game changed. Heaven knows how much time, effort and money has been spent on this hopeless task, but it meant that no one gave a thought about British boaters becoming isolated and criminalised because of the colour of the fuel in their tanks.

I don't know how much longer this futile battle will go on. A look through the Forum posts on this subject shows just how confused and frustrated everyone is. I don't want to take my family across the Channel , fearful that gun-toting enforcers will board us at any time and put us through the regulations wringer.

However much it would be nice to hang on our fuel tax break, I think the evil day can be put off no longer. In the interests of all boaters , there must be some clarity, even if it means giving up this fruitless fight.

+1

 

[GlennG]

... Now in view of this do we roll over and give up or continue to fight the case through the courts. I do understand that sometimes people think the case is not worth fighting and it is best to give into the bullying and take the path of least resistance. I just happen not to agree with that approach.

So it's up to the little guy, e.g. me, to fight a government. You don't want too much then.

How about I delegate the fighting to the people who are supposed to do it; the boating enthusiast's association (arrgh why eh) and the democratically elected UK government who got us into this mess because they listened to the power boat lobby.

 

[Twister_Ken]

I do understand that sometimes people think the case is not worth fighting and it is best to give into the bullying and take the path of least resistance. I just happen not to agree with that approach.

The legal profession just loves people like you!

 

[maxi77]

We are out of step and have run out of wriggling room and derogation time on the question of red diesel. It may suit the view of the present government and Eurosceptics to have core voters like us peeved with the Brussels lot but it leaves us boaters in limbo.

The UK and other EU countries selling red diesel for leisure craft were given extra time after the duty standardisation regulations ( to which the government of the day agreed) came into force, I assume so that revised fuel supply arrangements, phasing out red diesel, could be made.

The others revised their arrangements, albeit slowly, but they have done it now. We have done nothing because the Brits do what they always do and try to get the rules of the game changed. Heaven knows how much time, effort and money has been spent on this hopeless task, but it meant that no one gave a thought about British boaters becoming isolated and criminalised because of the colour of the fuel in their tanks.

I don't know how much longer this futile battle will go on. A look through the Forum posts on this subject shows just how confused and frustrated everyone is. I don't want to take my family across the Channel , fearful that gun-toting enforcers will board us at any time and put us through the regulations wringer.

However much it would be nice to hang on our fuel tax break, I think the evil day can be put off no longer. In the interests of all boaters , there must be some clarity, even if it means giving up this fruitless fight.

But the EU has said that in their opinion red deisel in UK craft is legal if proper duty has bee paid, so perhaps it is Belgium that is out of step and perhaps now they have a government they will sort themselves out.

 

[Stork_III]

But the EU has said that in their opinion red deisel in UK craft is legal if proper duty has bee paid, so perhaps it is Belgium that is out of step and perhaps now they have a government they will sort themselves out.

Not quite correct. An EU official originally said the UK proposal was OK, but subsequently the EU has said the arrangement is in contravention of various Directives and enforcement action is being taken against the UK Government. UK says its not. European Court has yet to decide who is correct.

 

[jordanbasset]

So it's up to the little guy, e.g. me, to fight a government. You don't want too much then.

How about I delegate the fighting to the people who are supposed to do it; the boating enthusiast's association (arrgh why eh) and the democratically elected UK government who got us into this mess because they listened to the power boat lobby.

When I was referring to 'we' I meant our Government, which we elect. So to make it absolutely clear we should not cave into a bully, our Government and the RYA should continue to fight the good fight. If you are saying our Government should cave in when other nations demand something which we believe is not legal then I disagree with you.
It is for individuals to decide if they need to go to Belgium.

 

[GlennG]

When I was referring to 'we' I meant our Government, which we elect. So to make it absolutely clear we should not cave into a bully, our Government and the RYA should continue to fight the good fight. If you are saying our Government should cave in when other nations demand something which we believe is not legal then I disagree with you.
It is for individuals to decide if they need to go to Belgium.

I definitely agree it's up to our governments to sort this out.

I just hate it when it's the individual who's taking the pounding for their intransigence (incompetence, ignorance...).

 

[maby]

I definitely agree it's up to our governments to sort this out.

I just hate it when it's the individual who's taking the pounding for their intransigence (incompetence, ignorance...).

There's only one thing our government could do quickly, and that is to ban us from using red diesel - which, for most of us, would ban us from using the engine at all, even in UK waters, since we cannot buy anything else. How many times does it have to be said? The fault is with the marinas, not the government!

 

[GlennG]

So the RYA hit the wrong target?