Conachair
Guest
You will carry on believving it's that simple and among those who actually go out there and do it there will continue to be boats with long keels.
What's the fascination with long keels?
- Thread starter john_morris_uk
- Start date
You will carry on believving it's that simple and among those who actually go out there and do it there will continue to be boats with long keels.
rotrax
Well-Known Member
Point taken- I had not considered that, mainly because a Hanse was lost when its rudder stock broke and it fell out. I imagine a suitable plug to stop too much water getting in if the seal is below the water line. A hole for an onboard line as well- our Hunter did not have one.
Storyline
Well-Known Member
Yes, I would not relish doing it - I have made a mental note to check how high the top of our rudder tube is above the water line - I assume it must be higher or else there would have to be a seal which would have probably leaked by now!
Robin
Well-Known Member
And those long keeled boats will become older and older and fewer and fewer because nobody builds them new any more, because the world has moved on. You might not like it but that is the reality. The very few new boats that are around with long keels are not the same either, they are mostly modern copies with the the rufty tufty look but not the feel and no performance.
There are lots of people out there world girdling in modern fin keeled boats and have been for years and the ratio of fin to long will only get bigger. Just as it has always been however regardless of design, some of those boats cruising the oceans will be better suited to the task than will others. C'est la vie.
Sybarite
Well-Known Member
I have sailed for the last 25 years on the same boat, a Feeling 920 which has served me very well. It is a brilliant compromise between sailing ability, room and cost.
With retirement I am now re-assessing the sailing I would like to do. Whereas the Feeling is a great sea boat, with advancing years I shall probably look at something a little larger and less skittish with the aim of heading further afield.
My criteria are as follows :- cost - I do not want an enormous investment tied up in a boat and therefore I shall probably look at an older but well found boat where the price difference compared with the Feeling will be modest.
As long keel boats are less popular this may well be reflected in their price. I am not wedded to the idea of a long keel but I am not against it either.
I definitely want a fixed doghouse for weather and sun protection and the ability to have the necessary instruments well protected but there where they are of most use for the helmsman.
My reference boats at present are the Rasmus/Nab 35, Moody Halberdier 36, Neptunian 33, Westerly Conway 36. Perhaps a Salar 40 but here costs go up. The list is not limited to these but the search will start here.
These are all centre cockpit boats. The advantage for me here is better separation of accommodation for the sake of privacy, more sleeping room, but OTOH, more cramped saloon room and usually a dinette arrangement which I’m not so keen on.
Another advantage is that normally the mainsheet traveler and sheet are behind the helmsman yet close at hand.
I would like a beefed up engine (50 – 75hp), relatively long range tanks and a heavy duty mooring system. All of these are back-up safety features. We prefer anchoring to marinas as long as there is a hot water shower on board.
I would appreciate your views.
With retirement I am now re-assessing the sailing I would like to do. Whereas the Feeling is a great sea boat, with advancing years I shall probably look at something a little larger and less skittish with the aim of heading further afield.
My criteria are as follows :- cost - I do not want an enormous investment tied up in a boat and therefore I shall probably look at an older but well found boat where the price difference compared with the Feeling will be modest.
As long keel boats are less popular this may well be reflected in their price. I am not wedded to the idea of a long keel but I am not against it either.
I definitely want a fixed doghouse for weather and sun protection and the ability to have the necessary instruments well protected but there where they are of most use for the helmsman.
My reference boats at present are the Rasmus/Nab 35, Moody Halberdier 36, Neptunian 33, Westerly Conway 36. Perhaps a Salar 40 but here costs go up. The list is not limited to these but the search will start here.
These are all centre cockpit boats. The advantage for me here is better separation of accommodation for the sake of privacy, more sleeping room, but OTOH, more cramped saloon room and usually a dinette arrangement which I’m not so keen on.
Another advantage is that normally the mainsheet traveler and sheet are behind the helmsman yet close at hand.
I would like a beefed up engine (50 – 75hp), relatively long range tanks and a heavy duty mooring system. All of these are back-up safety features. We prefer anchoring to marinas as long as there is a hot water shower on board.
I would appreciate your views.
BobPrell
Well-Known Member
rotrax
Well-Known Member
Like I have posted twice before, look at the Island Packet Homeport and check out their range. They are made in fairly large quantities, have long keels and still hold their own in major offshore races. They are a popular choice for blue water cruising in their home waters.
snowleopard
Well-Known Member
Think very carefully about this, in particular, what the interaction will be between helmsman and mainsheet in an accidental gybe when the boom is right out! If there is a possibility of a large bight of sheet getting round your head as the boom sweeps across it is bound to happen at the worst possible time.
snowleopard
Well-Known Member
Are you thinking of a particular model? I have sailed a great many miles in an IP 420 built around 2002. It was dreadfully slow to the extent I could - and did - literally sail circles round it in my own boat and its pointing ability was poorer than any AWB of the same era because of the wide sheeting angle of the headsail.
There is no doubt they are comfortable and have an easy motion. They are popular for American-style cruising with day-sails and overnight stops but none of the layouts I have seen have proper sea berths to the extent that with 3 up on a 6-berth boat we had to hot-bunk in the saloon. Not fun on a 15-day ocean passage!
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RobbieW
Well-Known Member
As there is whenever the helm or crew are in close proximity to the mainsheet, whether its forward or aft of the steering position. The Liquid Vortex Myth of Malham accident was exactly this.
snowleopard
Well-Known Member
On my boat the sheets are in front of the fixed spray hood. I moved them there from the designer's arrangement of end of boom to aft traveller to avoid the sheet sweeping the cockpit. It is my practice to gybe the boom from 70° out to port to 90° to starboard and the sheet has never snagged anyone!
Sybarite
Well-Known Member
In my configuration there would be a frame over the forward end of the rear cabin roof to support a bimini attaching to the after end of the doghouse. This would provide protection - from the sun as well because I am susceptible to sun/skin problems.
It could also be conceived as an extra strong frame to take the MS traveller too.
I had a crew member get caught like this where the MS ran across the bridge deck at the front of the cockpit. He stuck his head out of the companionway in the middle of a gybe. We were able to glue it back on though.
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Oatcake
Active Member
Most people drive 2 wheel drive cars and live in spec houses, it is a fallacy to assume that what most people do is in fact the best thing to all peopleto do.
If we're dealing with the pragmatic situation of having the best possible resale value upon completion of a sabbatical then it's the benetuau, if we're talking about living on a boat permanently and sailing anywhere, then isome other boats should be considered, IMO.
john_morris_uk
Well-Known Member
I agree 100%. My experience of Island Packets is that although they are comfortable to live on when not passage making, the sail like dogs. They are slow and their pointing is poor.
Depends what you want - but I wouldn't hold up Island Packet as a good example of a modern long keeled boat.
Robin
Well-Known Member
I didn't say that at all, that is your interpretation of what I said. What I did say is that since nobody much is building long keeled boats any more yet everybody IS building fin keeled boats then the number of long keeled ones available is slowly but very surely reducing. Feel free to buy and sail whatever trips your personal trigger, but the fact remains that if it is a heavyweight long keeler with a keel hung rudder and a prop in an aperture then you will inevitably be sailing on a very old boat, unless you build one yourself or pay for custom build.
We are very soon to be living permanently on our boat and it is a shallowish draught unballasted wide beam little beauty, so in one sense indeed you are correct because we did consider something entirely different and bought a motor yacht! OK so we will not be crossing oceans, but we do have 1,000ml range and we will be island hopping around the Bahamas and nearer Caribbean islands and doing in great comfort! Each to their own.
rotrax
Well-Known Member
Exactly- it depends what you want. It would also appear to be the only example of a long keel boat in production. Owners appear to like them and many are on their second or third IP. Must have something going on........
snowleopard
Well-Known Member
The owner of the one I have sailed on actually cancels his sailing plans if it means going upwind! It's for sale.
Robin
Well-Known Member
rotrax
Well-Known Member
It beggars the question if he really likes boats then. After all it is bound to have one of those nice grey painted four cylinder diesel thingy's under the cockpit sole.................................
snowleopard
Well-Known Member
Yachtmaster instructor, over 100,000 miles logged. Yes, he likes sailing but going to windward in an Island Packet isn't sailing.
