doug748
Well-Known Member
The Island Packet always looked a bit scanty in the draught department.
What's happened to the Rustler 36 then?
What's the fascination with long keels?
- Thread starter john_morris_uk
- Start date
The Island Packet always looked a bit scanty in the draught department.
What's happened to the Rustler 36 then?
Bajansailor
Well-Known Member
Umm, some ocean racers are still using long keels, but very few (if any) are being built now (or in recent years) with them.
Doesn't mean that they don't work though.
Look at Stormy Weather - http://www.stormy-weather.co.uk/ and http://www.stormy.ca/marine/index.html
Before the Antigua Classics Regatta was started, she used to race against Swans (and other similar IOR type racing yachts) in Sailing Week. The Swans would get a wee bit miffed when Stormy invariably beat them over the ground, upwind and down, and clobber them on corrected time.
Similarly re the Falmouth Quay Punt Curlew http://www.nmmc.co.uk/index.php?/collections/featured_boats/falmouth_quay_punt_curlew - I am pretty sure that I saw her at Antigua Sailing Week in 1987 (long time ago now) where she mopped up the fleet of racing boats (Stormy did as well) who were all rather mortified to have been beaten by a 90 year old wooden gaffer......
When does a long keel become a fin keel? Sunstone is somewhere in between, with a long fin, and is another legendary ocean racer - more about her here - http://www.sunstonesailing.com/backgrnd/backgrnd.html
The Sunstones are also well accustomed to collecting silverware at regattas, and thrashing more 'modern' racing yachts.
JayBee
Well-Known Member
If you want one, Rustler Yachts will be happy to build one for you. Hardly a production boat, but one with a steady demand for new builds and a healthy second hand market.
Otter
Well-Known Member
The Ben/Jen/Bav/Han is the Ford Mondeo - built very well, but to a price for a mass market who want a predictable known quantity. The long keeler is perhaps something like a Morgan - esoteric, harking back to a previous era. They are now very much a niche in the new build market but retain loyal devotees in the used market from those who know and respect their qualities.
And the best joke from this thread? "Racing is responsible for most of the innovations in leisure sailing"
I'd say that Westerly yachts are responsible for more innovations in leisure sailing than anyone else. They perfected the "good enough" compromise between performance, space and build cost and all the volume producers have built on their concept since.
And the best joke from this thread? "Racing is responsible for most of the innovations in leisure sailing"
I'd say that Westerly yachts are responsible for more innovations in leisure sailing than anyone else. They perfected the "good enough" compromise between performance, space and build cost and all the volume producers have built on their concept since.
Poignard
Well-Known Member
This has been an interesting thread, with contributions from people with awe-inspiring experience, but if I won the lottery, one of the first things I would do would be to rush down to Bristol (in my brand new top-of-the-range BMW), and place an order for a replica Bristol Channel pilot cutter. 
http://www.pilotcutter.co.uk/?q=portfolio
My reasons for choosing such a design would be not only that it has been well-proven to be able to stand up to bad weather and to be handled by a small crew but also, and very importantly, because it just "looks the business" to my inexpert eye.
http://www.pilotcutter.co.uk/?q=portfolio
My reasons for choosing such a design would be not only that it has been well-proven to be able to stand up to bad weather and to be handled by a small crew but also, and very importantly, because it just "looks the business" to my inexpert eye.
westernman
Well-Known Member
This has been an interesting thread, with contributions from people with awe-inspiring experience, but if I won the lottery, one of the first things I would do would be to rush down to Bristol (in my brand new top-of-the-range BMW), and place an order for a replica Bristol Channel pilot cutter.
http://www.pilotcutter.co.uk/?q=portfolio
My reasons for choosing such a design would be not only that it has been well-proven to be able to stand up to bad weather and to be handled by a small crew but also, and very importantly, because it just "looks the business" to my inexpert eye.
You mean something like this?
https://picasaweb.google.com/114997004911643937527/Menorca2009#5378363605391911122
Robin
Well-Known Member
I was on the 1962 Tall Ships Race on board Theodora, the Bristol Channel Pilot Cutter owned by Chris Ellis and on long term loan to Ocean Youth Club. I sailed (and worked) on her several times afterwards as well and all that was what got me hooked on sail cruising, with a few years of pretty competitive dinghy racing in between. Theodora is still around and last I heard was being restored completely, but probably long completed by now.
The original was designed to be sailed by a man and a boy I believe, but not when set up as Theodora was with topmast, topsail, squaresails and so on, there were no winches on board just multiple tackles and lots of two six heave grunt required for which we had a crew of fourteen on the Tall Ships Race.
Lovely boat and lots of wonderful memories, but would I commission a new version, no I don't think so.
The original was designed to be sailed by a man and a boy I believe, but not when set up as Theodora was with topmast, topsail, squaresails and so on, there were no winches on board just multiple tackles and lots of two six heave grunt required for which we had a crew of fourteen on the Tall Ships Race.
Lovely boat and lots of wonderful memories, but would I commission a new version, no I don't think so.
Poignard
Well-Known Member
Something exactly like that!
'She walks the waters like a thing of life,
And seems to dare the elements to strife.'
How about some more pictures/videos of her? I've had a look at the photos on your profile.
You mean something like this?
https://picasaweb.google.com/114997004911643937527/Menorca2009#5378363605391911122
'She walks the waters like a thing of life,
And seems to dare the elements to strife.'
How about some more pictures/videos of her? I've had a look at the photos on your profile.
Tranona
Well-Known Member
I have just about all the bases covered then - I have a Bavaria, a near 50 year old wooden long keeler and drive a Ford C Max and a own a Morgan. Two best bits of the Morgan are it feels like driving 30s car but with all the reliability and ease of maintenance of a modern car - and still worth as much as I paid for it new nearly 9 years ago!
And I fancy the Amber 40 for sale just up the road at Ridge - then I could join the old men of the sea brigade.
rotrax
Well-Known Member
Yes-a distinct advantage sometimes. The lead and iron ballast is very low down and most models have good form stability due to the shape and beam. Our slow and poor to windward example is one of the smaller models and has 8000lbs. of lead in the keel. She is very stiff and carries sail well. It is accepted fact with IP's that more than 17 degrees inclination its time to reef. She can carry main, staysail and 135% genoa in 25knts. true wind and reaches hull speed with a clean bottom. With all the cruising gear and tools, spares, full tanks, extra fuel and water she is very heavy-11 tons plus- but you hardly notice that she is loaded. It is a case of horses for courses and we have made the right choice for us. As is quite clear from the previous posts long keelers dont suit everyone. Compared to twelve year old AWB's that we have looked at there is no comparison in quality. Many visitors think our boat is a couple of years old at most, not built in 1999. She punches through seas well, George our autopilot copes with just about anything and she is not heavy to hand steer. First mate and I, both only been sailing nine years, can manage her easily. For our type of cruising the benifits outweigh the drawbacks by a huge amount. Others may well see it differently- surely that is the beauty of choice. We dont run down AWB's and we dont ram down others throats the advantages of our boat over theirs. We love her and thats OK. The view of others is of supreme indifference to us because we are sailing our dream boat. As a previous poster said you can have a rustler built and if you spoke nicely to Northshore perhaps a Vancouver-I think they are long keel too.
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rotrax
Well-Known Member
As he has found out, he bought the wrong boat. A good look at the IP Homeport researching the sailing qualities- or not -of IP's would have been worthwhile.
Conachair
Guest
Lovely
. Do they make thim in steel though? One thought for those who feel the need for a fast bluewater boat good upwind. Don't forget to budget for lots of books. Cos you'll be on your own with no one to talk to. All the other bluewater sailors head slowly downwind on those occasional boring bits between different boat fixing paradises.
westernman
Well-Known Member
Lovely
Yes. Annabel-J is in steel.
More info here:-
http://www.annabel-j.co.uk/
Mine is in wood/epoxy which is a pretty good compromise - no leaks, substantially reduced maintenance but still basically wood. Hence warm inside etc.
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westernman
Well-Known Member
More photos here:-
https://picasaweb.google.com/114997004911643937527/Menorca2009
http://tallshipstock.com/eleanormary.html (old name)
http://www.coveyisland.com/downloads/ClassicBoat(aug07).pdf
http://tallshipsandsmallships.com/pages/yachtsandracing/03_largest.htm
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jOtUfrsU82o
Poignard
Well-Known Member
Thanks for those. I think I'll go down to the shops and get some more lottery tickets!
rotrax
Well-Known Member
This has been an interesting thread, with contributions from people with awe-inspiring experience, but if I won the lottery, one of the first things I would do would be to rush down to Bristol (in my brand new top-of-the-range BMW), and place an order for a replica Bristol Channel pilot cutter.
http://www.pilotcutter.co.uk/?q=portfolio
My reasons for choosing such a design would be not only that it has been well-proven to be able to stand up to bad weather and to be handled by a small crew but also, and very importantly, because it just "looks the business" to my inexpert eye.
Totaly in agreement! Our winter talks club had a day sail on "Morwena" the new build one that was launched a few years ago. Wonderfull. Just like the training First Mate and I did on "Golden Vanity" it's hard graft-no winches, just tackles and miles if cordage. But what a lovely motion in heavy seas-smooth as silk compared to the two AWB's we owned before our current boat. We think it looks a little pilot cutterish from a distance too............
Twister_Ken
Well-Known Member
Even the blesséd St Thomas of Cunliffe has realised that he can no longer boss a pilot cutter with just himself and wife aboard. His latest boat, a more conventional bermudan cutter still has lot of underwater, though. Not sure whether Tom has the bow thruster shown on this drawing.
snowleopard
Well-Known Member
An interesting observation. I took part in the 1976 OSTAR in my tri as did Peter Crowther in Golden Vanity. He arrived in 88 days, the longest time taken by any boat in the history of the race. When I met him a few years later I asked him what his problem had been. His reply was 'Whatever I did and however hard it blew I couldn't get it to do more than 3 knots'.
Robin
Well-Known Member
Even the blesséd St Thomas of Cunliffe has realised that he can no longer boss a pilot cutter with just himself and wife aboard. His latest boat, a more conventional bermudan cutter still has lot of underwater, though. Not sure whether Tom has the bow thruster shown on this drawing.
I remember she (Theodora) used to track very well, so well in fact that the wheel (seemed like 100 turns lock to lock) was merely a fine tuning device to modify the course the boat had decided on. I also remember two us on the wheel one night in bad weather, that despite the very low gearing.
rotrax
Well-Known Member
I believe that Golden Vanity won the tall ships race once though-not bad for a small gaff cutter. We had her going well one night between Salcombe and Brixham-reefed main, staysail and about F6. Wind on the port quarter and water sluicing the deck. The strap was needed to hold the tiller steady. She has a lovely carved fist on the end of the tiller. I wonder if your tri will still be sailing when she is in her one hundred and fourth year.
