What would typically be included with a used sailing yacht?

[Laser310]

I'm looking at a few brokerage cruising sailboat in the 40-45ft range, typically 5-10 years old.

I'm wondering what might normally be included with the boat, and what might be taken by the seller, perhaps to outfit their next boat.

I realize there are no rules - the seller can do what they like, and the buyer should make an offer that reflects the need to purchase items that are removed.

Still, I am wondering what experience people here have had: what came with your boat?

I figure some things typically will stay with the boat, but other things might typically go with the owner.

There are many items I could list, but here are a few:

Dinghy/outboard - could go either way.

Liferaft - either way

Winch handles - the boat should come with a few winch handles.., right?

EPIRB - i would guess that if the boat has an epirb, it would usually stay - right?

Flares, and other signalling equipment? should stay?

Flashlights?

Cookware - pots, pans, etc as well as plates, glasses, knives, forks?

sheets/duvets?

Fenders, dock lines?

basic tool kit?

Bino's - If I had a good pair of bino's, I'd probably take them.

Local charts?

The list could go on....

I figure part of the reason to buy a second-hand boat is not only to save money on the hull, but also to save money on all the equipment needed to run it.

But it seems some sellers figure if it's not nailed down.., they get to keep it.

A story about my current boat" a 30ft sport boat/ daysailer; the purchase (a private sale) was complete, and a few days later, on the weekend, I went to the sellers club to get the boat, and sail it to my club, about an 8 hour trip. The seller was at the dock, getting ready to sail his other boat - which he had actually owned since before buying the one he sold to me. My wife and I were about to cast off, and motor out of the slip, when I (luckily) realized there were no winch handles on the boat. There definitely were winch handles on the boat when I test-sailed it. I ran down the dock to where the owner was, and said: "there are no winch handles!".., he considered for a moment, and then looked around his other boat, and came out with two - not very nice handles, but they worked for the delivery.

 

[steveeasy]

When you buy a boat you must not assume anything is included unless it is specifically included in the inventory. If its not in the inventory then the seller is fully at liberty to keep the items. so before making an offer make sure you see a detailed inventory and compare it to what is still on the boat.

Steveeasy

 

[dunedin]

When you buy a boat you must not assume anything is included unless it is specifically included in the inventory. If its not in the inventory then the seller is fully at liberty to keep the items. so before making an offer make sure you see a detailed inventory and compare it to what is still on the boat.

Steveeasy

Yes, generally anything screwed on / permanently attached should be included, but a detailed inventory is a must.

Dinghy, outboard, cookware, sheets etc all generally unlikely to be included unless specific to boat, in which case would be on inventory. Owner giving up sailing will often include more - but perhaps also more old junk than you want.

 

[Laser310]

When you buy a boat you must not assume anything is included unless it is specifically included in the inventory. If its not in the inventory then the seller is fully at liberty to keep the items. so before making an offer make sure you see a detailed inventory and compare it to what is still on the boat.

Steveeasy

Sure.., that's the "right" answer...

But most listing and inventories are put together by brokers, and they usually don't list things like winch handles.., and while i might ask for an inventory that lists _everything_ that goes with the boat.., they will likely say "okay", and then never get around to it.

I think another option is, on showing up for a viewing, to say something like: "I am assuming that _everything_ on the boat now, except the owners clothing, comes with the boat. If it doesn't, please tell me."

 

[dunedin]

Sure.., that's the "right" answer...

But most listing and inventories are put together by brokers, and they usually don't list things like winch handles.., and while i might ask for an inventory that lists _everything_ that goes with the boat.., they will likely say "okay", and then never get around to it.

I think another option is, on showing up for a viewing, to say something like: "I am assuming that _everything_ on the boat now, except the owners clothing, comes with the boat. If it doesn't, please tell me."

Hence why we took the brokers inventory and added other items that we understood were included and asked the broker to confirm our amended inventory, which was also referred to in our formal offer.

 

[KompetentKrew]

If it wasn't for your previous experience, I'd say it was silly to care about winch handles. I must admit I skipped over the second half of your original comment, so was surprised when, after composing most of this reply, I noticed that detail.

Winch handles were not on the inventory of my boat, but were included. Then when I posted on here I was told they were knackered, that I should be ashamed of them and they should be replaced. So I bought one basic winch handle for £20 and one fancy Lewmar one-touch winch handle for £80.

Probably the flares will have been on the boat a while when the owner decides to sell it and they may well be expired by the time it sells, The liferaft will probably be in need of repacking / recertification. The EPIRB will need a new battery.

You need to decide what's important, and what's valuable enough to negotiate over. If a boat is asking £50,000 you're not going to offer £49,950 and justify it because some of the flares have expired and need replacing - you'd get a funny look. I would make sure the dinghy and outboard are included and then make an offer for £45,000 and say that's what you think it's worth based on condition and required updates. If you find another boat for £50,000 then it will also be missing some of these accessories or accoutrements. Valuing a boat is a very approximate business IMO.

I think it was wrong of the previous owner of your current boat to leave you without any winch handles at all but I must confess I'm the type of bloke who would take the good handles with me and leave you with the crappy ones. If you got the broker to include 3 winch handles in the inventory then you'd just get the same thing - he'd leave the crappy ones. And you can get the broker to put the Lewmar FancyPants^TM winch handle in the inventory but you'd need to compile an incredibly detailed inventory from stem to stern of the boat, because otherwise you'd risk getting stung on something else.

Something is going to turn up in the survey that requires replacement or adjustment to the price, and you want the goodwill of the seller when that happens. So focus on the big things, maintain a sense of proportion. You've owned a boat before so you know that you're going to be spending on it endlessly in any case - don't sweat the little things.

 

[NormanS]

I would think it entirely dishonest not to leave the winch handles with the boat.
When we bought our present boat, there was quite a a detailed inventory, all present and correct, but I was quite surprised when the seller turned up with a load of extra things, like the DenbyWare crockery and the crystal glasses, which we hadn't known about. Some people are better than others.

 

[steveeasy]

Sure.., that's the "right" answer...

But most listing and inventories are put together by brokers, and they usually don't list things like winch handles.., and while i might ask for an inventory that lists _everything_ that goes with the boat.., they will likely say "okay", and then never get around to it.

I think another option is, on showing up for a viewing, to say something like: "I am assuming that _everything_ on the boat now, except the owners clothing, comes with the boat. If it doesn't, please tell me."

Just so important to have a detailed inventory. If its not on there its a bonus if it is when you take over the boat. From my own experience a picture is not enough, it must be listed. Winch handles, there should be one left on board. Pretty bad to sell a boat with out one at all.

Steveeasy

 

[Baggywrinkle]

When I sold my boat, the broker asked me to prepare a detailed inventory of what was being sold with the boat. I thought this was normal practice, as I also had a detailed inventory when I bought the boat.

 

[Laser310]

I would think it entirely dishonest not to leave the winch handles with the boat.

I kind of think that what might have happened, is that he had been mostly sailing the boat he sold to me - a newer, faster, boat than his older boat - which he decided to keep because of it's great handicap rating.., and thought "well, I will just grab those fancy winch handles before he gets on the boat".., perhaps not realizing they were the only ones on the boat.

the other funny thing, was the look his wife gave him on hearing my complaint; "really, I married a guy who would sell a boat without winch handles to a fellow sailor?"

 

[Sandy]

When I bought my boat everything down to the teaspoons was included.

I've done a few deliveries where we heeded to bring our own eating irons and crockery.

 

[Chiara’s slave]

Ours came fairly complete, anything we might need that was not on board was not because we were done down by the seller, but because he wasn’t that much of a sailor. But a nice, decent man. Taking winch handles would sound the alarm for me, I’d be checking he hadn’t taken the log impeller and the seacocks.

 

[srm]

It varies a lot in the UK.
I would suggest that when buying the offer specifies what you expect, perhaps including a catch all like "all gear on the vessel when I inspected it on . . . (date)". Likewise the seller should include an inventory when offering the vessel for sale.

Selling my previous boat I kept the radar, wind turbine, liferaft, wind vane steering gear, lifejackets plus a few other things. Had to do some creative photo editing when giving the broker pics so they only showed what I was selling. I removed all these items before handing the boat over to the broker, and made it clear that everything on board went with the boat.

Selling the current boat as I have to give up cruising personal items were removed then offered it with "all equipment and spares on board". An inventory of the main items was made, plus the general statement above. The boat was sold in the EU with a surveyor advising the buyer so the inventory plus a description of the vessel was included in the sale contract and witnessed by a notary. I found some more spares at home (alternator, starter motor, gearbox) that I had forgotten to include so took them down to the boat and gave to the new owner this weekend.

 

[pandos]

When a bought my first boat the seller insisted I take a van load of old sh*t , including a soggy life raft and dozens of old sails and life jackets, which she insisted was "part of the boat "When I sold that boat, at the hand over, the buyer had to tell his wife to stop giving me things from the boat..that deal was a bare boat, and anything I left was to be seen as a gift/bonus. (I left him a lot of stuff)

When I bought my next boat I specified that I was getting everything that was on board...

If I was selling, I'd empty the boat of every last scrap, even if it meant dumping good stuff as I think the positive effect of seeing empty clean lockers is far better than the value of lockers full of old tat or even good clutter...

To answer the OP you gotta ask...if the stuff is good make the offer conditional on it being included, if it's old tat make it conditional on it being removed...

 

[Sailing steve]

Last boat I sold for a few grand I negotiated round what's included or not.

At the asking price the buyer could have the lot but the more they moved away from my price the more I took out of the deal. We settled for less and I ended up selling an outboard motor, autohelm and spinnaker and a Bosun's box of spares on the bay of e for fair money so either way I didn't lose.

 

[Sea Change]

When buying and selling a house, under Scots Law the phrase IIRC is 'essential to use of the property'. So unless specifically excluded or included, this is the test by which you determine if something is included. One example is that a garden shed which formed part of the boundary of the property should have been included, but a freestanding one was not.
Being easily removable (not nailed down) is not relevant, otherwise the seller could keep the keys!

AFAIK no such rule applies to boats, as moveable property, so it's really all down to the inventory and both parties' willingness to work towards an easy sale.

Whenever we've sold a boat we've included enough lines and fenders to safely tie up, windlass and winch handles, and deck filler keys. Everything else is for the inventory.

 

[jwilson]

As a broker, when discussing inventory with sellers, I say they should in general provide everything needed to sail the boat away to another berth: ie enough warps to moor up, some fenders, and preferably a kettle to make some tea. So at least one winch handle! Most sellers leave more stuff, but rather than make the formal inventory ridiculously long and detailed, we say they are regarded as gifts to the new owner. A typical inventory is at the bottom of the page Moody 31 Mk II for sale - Yachtsnet Ltd. online UK yacht brokers - yacht brokerage and boat sales

Dinghies and outboards are often kept if the seller is buying or has already bought another boat. They can also be deliberately left off the inventory as "bargaining chips" in case the survey turns up a few defects that are enough to warrant a reduction in price: the seller can then offer the dinghy and/or outboard in lieu of a reduction.

 

[surfernan]

I was knocked hard by the buyer of my last boat so everything not included in the sale came off. 2k worth of extras he could of had.

 

[MoodySabre]

I bought a yacht that had been coded at some point and found all sorts of stuff like immersion suits that I sold here. The inventory included “various used pencils” (I kid you not) but a few days later I discovered a cruising chute that wasn’t on the inventory!

If it’s listed then it should be there. If you can see it when looking over the boat then it should be left IMO.

 

[Chiara’s slave]

I discovered 19kg of lead in the forward crash box, that the previous owner did not know was there. Anything free is a bonus, but that has since been repurposed more appropriately.