What Three Words

[Hermit]

"Each to their own" but the problem with "Each to their own" is that unless it's universal it's not much cop and I will echo a suspicion of anything regarded as a safety system which is someone's intellectual property.

I'm not about to download an app I don't need so telling me your location using some proprietary format won't convey much. If you're sinking, tell me you're 4 miles south of Selsey Bill and I'll come and help if I'm nearby. Tell me you're 50 degrees, something between 30' and 50'N, and half to 1 minute west and I'll recognize I'm in the vague area, plot it, see I'm nearby and come and help. Tell me you're okapi.dogger.bongo and...not so much.

My VHF displays my GPS position. it doesn't display some company's position words and I wouldn't fancy fumbling to switch on a phone in an emergency. The majority of the world's professional mariners should know digits spoken carefully in english. "W3W" words won't necessarily be memorable or even transcribable in another language so the sea, which should largely be the subject of our discussion, is frankly the least useful place for this.

On land? Well good luck with replacing postcodes. I once tried to report a moped submerged in a canal to the 101 non-emergency police number. They wouldn't accept the report without a post code (It was in the canal, I was on the tow path) even though I had the GPS position.

I have enough of my boatyard using a hoist with wheels. Told them that unless thy switch to good old logs moved back to front I won't use them anymore.

 

[anoccasionalyachtsman]

Great, I thought - an answer to all those lost couriers who can't find us, in our out-of-the way phone dead spot, with our postcode covering about a mile of road.

The first location it gave me was halfway up out neighbour's field full of cows. When I corrected it it still seemed unable to to track me around the house and garden. (I do have location services on) but gives an offset of ten or twelve squares. Better than a postcode but not that impressive. I'm now two houses away in their lake!

If W3W is giving you duff positions then a) your gps position will also be wrong, and b) go into the satellite view and tap on the square that you want the courier to stand in.

Edit Beaten to it.

 

[Mark-1]

Great, I thought - an answer to all those lost couriers who can't find us, in our out-of-the way phone dead spot, with our postcode covering about a mile of road.

The first location it gave me was halfway up out neighbour's field full of cows. When I corrected it it still seemed unable to to track me around the house and garden. (I do have location services on) but gives an offset of ten or twelve squares. Better than a postcode but not that impressive. I'm now two houses away in their lake!

Doesn't matter, just pick a square with a memorable set of words as near as poss to your front door/driveway entrance and job jobbed.

I've just done that and some how it's stuck in my mind.

 

[Hermit]

Fine - that's what I did to correct it - but are the couriers going to experience the same issue and be able to find me if their phone puts them in the lake as well?

No, becuase that spot doesn't move. Yhey will put it into the app which then passes them to a directions app (google/waze or their own) and navigates them to that exact spot.

 

[TernVI]

A casual listener on the VHF can hear a mayday '2 miles south of Eric's lighthouse' and realise he's close by.
You hear a lat and long and you think 'that sounds familiar'....
If you hear 'banana limosine greatly' are you going to bother to check?

W3W has been around quite a long time now. I had the app on my last phone, but haven't even thought about it in the last couple of years.
We did try it when we first moved house, as delivery drivers had a few issues. I think most of the courier firms are unwilling to pay for it?

 

[Hermit]

A casual listener on the VHF can hear a mayday '2 miles south of Eric's lighthouse' and realise he's close by.
You hear a lat and long and you think 'that sounds familiar'....
If you hear 'banana limosine greatly' are you going to bother to check?

W3W has been around quite a long time now. I had the app on my last phone, but haven't even thought about it in the last couple of years.
We did try it when we first moved house, as delivery drivers had a few issues. I think most of the courier firms are unwilling to pay for it?

But the individual driver wouldn't have to pay - only their company if they wanted it integrated into their systems.

The more it is used, the more it gets uses. Doesn't hurt to add your preferred home W3W to the 'notes for delivery driver' section when you order something - what is the worst that could happen!

 

[laika]

I have enough of my boatyard using a hoist with wheels. Told them that unless thy switch to good old logs moved back to front I won't use them anymore.

I believe your contention is "woo! shiny! this is the way everyone will report positions in the future." and you haven't addressed the specific points I'm raising such as:
- This requires a company's app. On a phone. And it needs to be pre-installed
- A minority of people have this app and giving out your position like this won't be useful to anyone who doesn't have it
- Anyone who goes to sea is familiar with position given by GPS (or bearing / distance)
- Your plotter, radio etc. display your GPS position
- Digits are part of a limited subset of english which mariners will learn
- Random words aren't memorable if they're not in your language and there's a different set of words for every language
- If you can "buy" a position and name it, this means those positions are changeable so two people might have different versions of the app with different words
- How close is walnut.blustering.discount to whippet.mustard.soft?

 

[Juan Twothree]

I have it written down on the notice board in our kitchen. We have one of those wide ranging postcodes. It may help one day.
I had the luxury of being able to choose the square in the garden that gave the best combination of words for using over the phone.
No, I won't tell you

Although I much prefer to use lat & long, especially at sea, I too have our W3W on a notice in the kitchen, for use in emergencies by more navigationally-challenged members of the family.

Rather appropriately, one of our words is lifeboats.

 

[HissyFit]

still requires an active phone signal or internet connection? we occasionally have neither, even at 'home' so what3 words then for those occasions elsewhere, crap. were. stuffed?

Once you've downloaded it, you don't need a phone signal nor internet connection, just GPS. Then again, if you're not on a yacht with radio comms, how do you get help?

 

[TernVI]

Fine - that's what I did to correct it - but are the couriers going to experience the same issue and be able to find me if their phone puts them in the lake as well?

It's only as accurate as your phone's GPS, and that can be a long way out sometimes when the signal isn't great. Like in a car, under wet trees, or in a car, under wet trees. Things like TomToms cheat by assuming your car will follow the roads it knows about. A lot of couriers overshoot our lane because their gps struggles under the trees on the B road.

 

[laika]

Surely we can simplify this. You're taking on water. You're calling mayday. How do you report your position?
- GPS
- approx range / bearing from something
- W3W

I would give GPS and if somewhere vaguely coastal, approx range and bearing from something.

Anyone who thinks spending time firing up a phone app to give three random words is the best use of their time in that situation is entitled to their opinion but I do not share it.

 

[Hermit]

I believe your contention is "woo! shiny! this is the way everyone will report positions in the future." and you haven't addressed the specific points I'm raising such as:
- This requires a company's app. On a phone. And it needs to be pre-installed
- A minority of people have this app and giving out your position like this won't be useful to anyone who doesn't have it
- Anyone who goes to sea is familiar with position given by GPS (or bearing / distance)
- Your plotter, radio etc. display your GPS position
- Digits are part of a limited subset of english which mariners will learn
- Random words aren't memorable if they're not in your language and there's a different set of words for every language
- If you can "buy" a position and name it, this means those positions are changeable so two people might have different versions of the app with different words
- How close is walnut.blustering.discount to whippet.mustard.soft?

I am sorry if you took it the wrong way - I was trying (unsuccessfuly it would appear) to be funny...

And, with respect to your points - they are all quite right and I cannot argue with any of them. However, I don't think it should replace any of the things you mention but should rather enhance them by its addition.

Clearly, professional mariners will continue to use Lat/Long as will sensible amatuers. But, should I be in the position where I hear a W3W based distress on a radio I will be able to respond to that person - even if they don't meet the standards of professionalism from a mariner.

Equally, the system has proved extermaly valuable in responding to people in distress ashore and in particualr along the coast (cut off by tide etc.) and, as someone who likes to walk around where postcodes don't exist I think it is very useful. I also showed my 85 year old Dad how to use when walking his dog in the field across from his house - it gives him (and me) some peace of mind he could get help if he fell over in the far corner.

It isn't a complete solution to all positioning problems - what is?- but it is a useful tool and I would recommend having it on your phone - just in case.

 

[dunedin]

There's also a glaring risk of data leaking to criminals, political police, etc, by this new and simple method.

Explain that one?

You seem to be in an extremely glass 90% empty mood today

Many of us think this is a really useful addition, particularly for people who go hill walking etc, Most people have smart phones these days, but few understand LatLong etc (and even fewer the difference between a position 56.56N vs 56d56m North), which W3W avoids completely.
I believe there are quite a few people who have been rescued thanks to this simple app. We all have it on our phones now.

 

[flaming]

Surely we can simplify this. You're taking on water. You're calling mayday. How do you report your position?
- GPS
- approx range / bearing from something
- W3W

I would give GPS and if somewhere vaguely coastal, approx range and bearing from something.

Anyone who thinks spending time firing up a phone app to give three random words is the best use of their time in that situation is entitled to their opinion but I do not share it.

Depends who's doing the calling...

Me, I'm using lat/long.

The non sailing friend who I've invited out for the day and shown the radio as part of my safety brief.... If I fall off the boat would I rather he struggled with unfamiliar lat/long from a chartplotter he's never seen before (is that lat/long the cursor position or the boat position, for example), or gave the coastguard our position in a format that he's familiar with from a device that is his and he uses all day?
That's a no brainer... The Coastguard can do the job of interpreting that and broadcasting an all ships.

 

[Mark-1]

A casual listener on the VHF can hear a mayday '2 miles south of Eric's lighthouse' and realise he's close by.
You hear a lat and long and you think 'that sounds familiar'....
If you hear 'banana limosine greatly' are you going to bother to check?

Yes, there are countless scenarios where W3W is useless. I think people are more likely to consider using it in scenarios where it's useful.

EDIT: Mind, you, you heard him on VHF so he's likely to be reasonable close. Close enough for you to check with the W3W app. In fact I'm curious enough that I wouldn't be able to resist checking.

W3W has been around quite a long time now. I had the app on my last phone, but haven't even thought about it in the last couple of years.
We did try it when we first moved house, as delivery drivers had a few issues. I think most of the courier firms are unwilling to pay for it?

Yeah, this is the fourth time W3W has come to my notice and the fourth time I've enthusiastically downloaded it, anxious to enjoy the benefits. Each time it's been immediately forgotten and never used again.

This time is slightly different though because I've added it to my amazon delivery notes. That's a game changer for me. So I doubt I'll have the app for long but I'll be telling people where I am with it from now on.

 

[dunedin]

Surely we can simplify this. You're taking on water. You're calling mayday. How do you report your position?
- GPS
- approx range / bearing from something
- W3W

I would give GPS and if somewhere vaguely coastal, approx range and bearing from something.

Anyone who thinks spending time firing up a phone app to give three random words is the best use of their time in that situation is entitled to their opinion but I do not share it.

Lots of grumpies on here today!
Surely on a yacht you would just press the red DSC distress button, which send your position anyway. Yes a verbal description of location helps on VHF 16 as well.

But most people nowadays keep their mobile phone on all day when in signal, and if W3W on Home Screen takes 2 secs to find - so hardly a big deal “firing up a phone App” if necesssary. Certainly massively quicker than all the quoting of Call Signs and Lengthy numerical MMSI numbers that you are likely to be asked to do, which is a much lengthier distraction.

 

[penberth3]

I prefer the old trusted Lat and Long, or the British National Grid.

To misquote CJ from the Rise and Fall of Reggie Perrin, "I didn't get where I am today by using three words".

Agreed on this. Lat/Long at sea, NGR on land. Two simple systems, perfectly adequate.

 

[anoccasionalyachtsman]

I'm another stunned by the negativity.

Do the knockers think Hipparchus of Nicaea gave free astrolabes to anyone that asked for one?

 

[penberth3]

I'm another stunned by the negativity.

Do the knockers think Hipparchus of Nicaea gave free astrolabes to anyone that asked for one?

I'm stunned that people are so keen to "dumb down" with needless technology!

 

[Mark-1]

I'm stunned that people are so keen to "dumb down" with needless technology!

Using the term "dumb down" is tacit acceptance that, for some people, W3W is simpler than the alternatives.