What Three Words

[TernVI]

I take data to mean 'internet', I've never heard it used in any other context.

Agree re SMS as I did earlier, don't think there's any doubt about that.

If you take 'data' to mean 'internet' then your comment about SMS needing data ws totally wrong. SMS is not really even closely related to the internet. It is short messages or data strings transferred slowly and reliably even at very poor signal conditions.

 

[TernVI]

Yes its all digital data since 2g. Its over my head mostly but its clear SMS over GSM is not the same digital data service as internet data even when a phone is 3 or 4 G for data

"While SMS is still a growing market, it is being increasingly challenged by Internet Protocol-based messaging services such as Apple's iMessage, Facebook Messenger, WhatsApp, Viber, WeChat" SMS - Wikipedia

In use its frequently the case that my phone looses the 3G while I still have the ability to send a text. And it will keep trying to send with any momentary bit of signal where a voice call wouldn't work. So have to wonder why text messaging isn't more integrated for emergency functions

The phone is also passing other data to the basestation(s), some of it even when you are not making a call. The phone logs on to a base station so that the network knows where it is for instance. The phone also tells the basestation what signal strength it is getting and timing information. SMS is tacked on to this datastream, since the days of 2G / GSM.
Internet based messaging is quite different. More versatile because it's not tied to the phone system, but less robust because it's not part of the core of the phone system. But as time goes on, the distinction between 'internet' and 'telephony' becomes ever more of a grey area.

 

[TernVI]

Are you confusing the words "data" and "digital"? If you look at phone charging they distinguish voice, text and data. That seems a good enough set of definitions to me. And I guess by "less in the way of comms" you are talking about signal quality, which phones usually display. As GPS devices (whether or not embedded in a phone) often also display for the absolutely separate GPS satellite signals.

no that's not helpful. People were transferring 'data' over 'radio' before 'internet' was in the dictionary.

 

[Mark-1]

If you take 'data' to mean 'internet' then your comment about SMS needing data ws totally wrong. SMS is not really even closely related to the internet. It is short messages or data strings transferred slowly and reliably even at very poor signal conditions.

See post 237.

 

[Mark-1]

no that's not helpful. People were transferring 'data' over 'radio' before 'internet' was in the dictionary.

Anyone in this thread who writes data is using the term in the sense that the phone companies use it. (Calls,SMS,data) I've certainly not seen any posts that appears to use it in a different context.

Eg: Pay Monthly Data Bundles | Pay Monthly Plans |

 

[Adios]

The phone is also passing other data to the basestation(s), some of it even when you are not making a call. The phone logs on to a base station so that the network knows where it is for instance. The phone also tells the basestation what signal strength it is getting and timing information. SMS is tacked on to this datastream, since the days of 2G / GSM.
Internet based messaging is quite different. More versatile because it's not tied to the phone system, but less robust because it's not part of the core of the phone system. But as time goes on, the distinction between 'internet' and 'telephony' becomes ever more of a grey area.

Gotcha. Considering how often we don't have internet data and how often voice calls are still broken even in built up areas isn't it strange that the most robust system isn't used for a DSC style quick and concise emergency messages including the GPS data that is continually updated anyway. The other reason is low battery moments just when you don't want one, with SMS I can click to send the message and with the phone in standby move around looking for a better signal until it sends. I've noticed even without moving location the signal can come and go for reasons I don't understand. Or emergencies when we don't have hands free for a 5 minute phone call. Thanks to this discussion and finding the 999 text service I linked above I now have it on my phone, could do with an app that formats a quick emergency message but its not bad having to just add "help broken leg in gully, weak signal" to the location data shared from the app as mark showed above in the unlikely event of ever needing it.

 

[TernVI]

Gotcha. Considering how often we don't have internet data and how often voice calls are still broken even in built up areas isn't it strange that the most robust system isn't used for a DSC style quick and concise emergency messages including the GPS data that is continually updated anyway. The other reason is low battery moments just when you don't want one, with SMS I can click to send the message and with the phone in standby move around looking for a better signal until it sends. I've noticed even without moving location the signal can come and go for reasons I don't understand. Or emergencies when we don't have hands free for a 5 minute phone call. Thanks to this discussion and finding the 999 text service I linked above I now have it on my phone, could do with an app that formats a quick emergency message but its not bad having to just add "help broken leg in gully, weak signal" to the location data shared from the app as mark showed above in the unlikely event of ever needing it.

A phone can send a lot of SMS data with the battery content it takes to get a fix from the GPS.
Fundamentally , the network usually has a pretty good idea of where your phone is, without GPS.
Some people had reservations about e.g. the police knowing where their phone is at all times, which tends to be a consequence if you do all the obvious things thinking only about rescue situations. Now that mobile phones are a mature, worldwide industry, things don't change ever so quickly. The industry was a lot more fun 30 years ago.

 

[Boathook]

More info on the text 999 service further down this page. This comes up when you register your phone as I just did. Contact 999 using Relay UK - How to use Relay UK | Relay UK

Seems run by BT as a service for the deaf but doesn't say no one else should use it. I guess that's why its not widely advertised or integrated, its a loss maker not a money maker.

Nice one. Another tool to use if necessary. Just registered, nice and easy to do.

 

[Adios]

A phone can send a lot of SMS data with the battery content it takes to get a fix from the GPS.

I've noticed my phone battery life is very much less in low signal areas but I didn't consider that there are different services or which is draining it more. I guess the internet service is a big drain. I've just realised I have the option to turn off 3g/4g leaving the GPS active and phone service which includes texting, but (I might as well tell you in case its of use) only includes sending to other iPhones after you've gone into settings to specify that you want to send it as SMS when 3g is set to off:



Both the "OS Locate" app and Three Words app works for giving up to date coordinates for a message with 3G turned off so can do everything independent of internet access either because there isn't any or to save battery.

Only downside of the three words app is having to store all the words for every square on the globe makes it a 148mb app compared to the OS Locate app which is 31mb. I doubt that will be a deal breaker for many and in a dumbed down world makes sense to give both options in the message so I'll keep the Three Words app.

For someone really hard up for phone storage there is an app called My GPS Coordinates which is only 5mb which offers the ability to include direct links to various map websites and a choice of coordinate formats in the shared SMS message. That might be more (or at least just as) idiot proof as three words way assuming the text messages to the 999 service shows up on something internet enabled which its bound to. One click and its straight to a pin on google maps.

 

[mjcoon]

Almost relevant is a tiny program I wrote for my Android smartphone for use when flying to Mediterranean sailing holidays.

The motivation was that I also had with me a tablet that is better for displaying where the plane is on a map than is the phone, but has an inferior GPS not so good at getting a fix through a plane window. So I wanted to transfer the co-ordinates from the phone to the tablet without having to type them in.

Using wi-fi or bluetooth was, at the time, not allowed, so my program merely displays the location of the phone as a QR code. The tablet has a QR code reader app which immediately calls, in turn, a mapping program to display the location.

Not of any use once we were on the boat, of course, whether in an emergency or not! The tablet's GPS chip was fine for driving the Navionics app.