penberth3
Well-known member
Until the battery goes flat. Technology has created a generation of morons.
What Three Words
- Thread starter Dutch01527
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Until the battery goes flat. Technology has created a generation of morons.
GHA
Well-known member
Sounds like could be handy in the anchorage to tell folk where your boat is over vhf - does the app have some sort of moving map with your position and the words?
Anyway, think I'll download it, where's the downside? Doesn't mean throwing out the gps, just another free option even if it never gets used.
Anyway, think I'll download it, where's the downside? Doesn't mean throwing out the gps, just another free option even if it never gets used.
laika
Well-known member
Certainly "whatever works best" is absolutely correct but are your pals really incapable of reading a GPS position and all have w3w installed and regularly used on their phones? I don't know which if any of my friends have w3w on their phones but no-one I've sailed with (and most of them are non-sailors) has an issue with the concept of GPS or reading the numbers off the VHF screen. My safety briefing includes showing people the script (pinned next to the VHF) and how to read the position from the VHF screen. I don't see the advantage of saying "now before we start, download this app....".
I understand how this might be helpful to people with cognitive challenges on land when they get lost, but as this is a sailing forum and we are, presumably, discussing this in a marine context, I'm failing to see the benefit of anyone reporting a position like this rather than GPS or "roughly where you are" for reasons already presented. A person with learning difficulties who finds themselves alone on a boat but knows how to use the app and their phone to call for help is a niche sub-case where this has utility.
When calling in your position on land by mobile phone, many people probably don't know how to display GPS on their phone and the issue is how do you remember numbers when you bring up the phone to punch in 112. 3 words are easier to remember. That's just not the case when your GPS position is displayed in front of you on the VHF (as well as the plotter).
At sea, it seems madness to decide to report your position using something only a minority will have a clue how to interpret.
Gary Fox
N/A
Spot on.
anoccasionalyachtsman
Well-known member
Deleted
flaming
Well-known member
Yes, almost all of my friends would have W3W installed, I am perhaps on the young side for this forum.... But you slightly miss the point. The point is that if the coastguard can handle a W3W position, then all you have to add to your briefing is "and if you're unsure, or to double check, you can give the W3W position to the coastguard." If this doesn't mean anything to them, no bother, if it does it's another tool. Don't forget that for a non sailor, calling in a mayday when the skipper has gone over the side is likely to be an extremely stressful event, especially if the event that caused the skipper to fall overboard has also resulted in lots of flapping sails etc. Anything to add to the chances of the coastguard receiving the position that I went into the water quickly and accurately is fine by me.
As a tool for the experienced, yes I agree entirely. But that's not what I'm suggesting at all.
Mark-1
Well-known member
In which case a way of describing location that is so easy a moron can use it is useful. Essential, even.
D
Deleted member 36384
Guest
I disagree. Technology has enabled a generation to be far more productive than their analogue compatriots.
anoccasionalyachtsman
Well-known member
Nope, the morons came first.
I've been involved in a Mayday where two numbers were transposed. Chap sending it thought it more important to tell us that the rocks were on his port side.
I did a vhf dsc course/exam a few years ago and half the class could hardly string a Mayday message together in the classroom - let alone on a bouncing boat.
I've switched a couple of farming friends on to W3W - I can now tell them exactly where the fence on the corner of the copse in the bottom of the second field across from the road needs repairing. One of them once asked me where North was while standing in his own farm yard. At night with a clear sky.
Anything which makes accurate nav easy for the masses has to be a good thing. You might live at 19 Acacia Avenue in some postcode, but I have a habit of living miles from anywhere and have to deal with Hermes. W3W has transformed my life in that respect.
No, I don't think it's the answer to marine nav for most of us, but it's a fantastic tool for the majority who can't do that.
ps. I'm intrigued to know how it is that you don't rely on batteries for your nav?
laika
Well-known member
That's as completely reasonable as my existing safety brief addendum that if in doubt about the VHF they can use their mobile to call the coastguard and obviously "whatever works": no argument with that. Given that for already stated reasons, GPS is a superior way to report position, hardly arcane, and it's displayed right there on the VHF (so there's no reason you'd teach w3w over GPS all things being equal), w3w as a choice would depend on someone being familiar and adept with it, in the same way that using a mobile might be a choice over VHF when panicking. I doubt I'm in the older half of the forum's age distribution yet but I shall start asking my friends if they have w3w. Certainly no-on has ever asked to meet me for a beer at wombat.shopping.interval. When meeting in parks for picnics people send me google maps locations. From responses here it seems to be more used by older people than younger. But I'll ask around...
Juan Twothree
Well-known member
That's possibly because wombat.shopping.interval is several hundred miles off the coast of Chile.
Corribee Boy
Well-known member
Whew. I'm back. I'd been down to give the boat a good hard stare and used W3W to navigate home. It's only about 50 metres but I wanted to check, given my previous concerns with accuracy.
Now I'm left with more questions. Is the use of plurals sensible - my first attempt, missing the 's', wanted me to go to Namibia! and, why does the map show the hotel four doors away actually on my drive, and what happens when they have an event on. Can I charge for parking?
Now I'm left with more questions. Is the use of plurals sensible - my first attempt, missing the 's', wanted me to go to Namibia! and, why does the map show the hotel four doors away actually on my drive, and what happens when they have an event on. Can I charge for parking?
flaming
Well-known member
Not on all VHFs it isn't.
I did a test a while ago whilst a bit bored motoring on a delivery. I moved the cursor on the plotter to be somewhere off the boat, then called the very experienced crew I was sailing with and said "imagine I've gone over the side, go through the VHF call to the coastguard". All very textbook, but the GPS co-ordinates that were read out were the position of the plotter, about 30 miles away, not the position of the boat.
If a very experienced sailor who had been using that plotter all day can make that sort of mistake with no pressure....
It's a tool in the armoury. In some situations it works well. In others, not so much.
In my experience W3W is better for when you don't know the person you're communicating with, or want to share the information publicly rather than with a small group of people. Otherwise dropped pins or "share location" in whatsapp etc are easier to use for that sort of thing, exactly as you describe. It's the communicating a location, outside of a comms app like whatsapp where it does come into its own. The delivery driver is a perfect example. Emergency services another.
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TernVI
Well-known member
It's maybe a sign that the alternatives need a re-vamp?
We have a postcode system that mostly works. What would it take to make it better than w3w for most purposes? If I tell you I'm at PO7 9FC, that is intuitively somewhere near Portsmouth, and PO7 9DZ is probably in walking distance.
We have the OS grid system, but nobody uses it.
In Germany, the phone dialling codes started with the North of the country and increasd as you headed South, so you could tell how local a number was by comparing it with your own. Our code system was a lot more opaque.
The nav app I want is one which augments the postcode system, which generally works for me, but easily makes people avoid certain roads which are dug up, flooded or don't go as far as google says.
A lot of people seem to want a whole new system because the postcode system needs a bit of an upgrade and maybe better accessibility?
W3W is 'simpler' because it only does one thing, and that's assign a unique label to a place. The other systems do a lot more, they tell you where that place is, where it's near etc etc. That's probably why it hasn't actually caught on.
There are a lot of other systems out there which overlap with this kind of function, for instance the cycling app I use to track my rides allows me to share routes and points of interest with other users. I think I can ping a route to my mates with a few keystrokes and they'll see it when they fire up the app, but I'm still playing with it as yet.
Daydream believer
Well-known member
First thing I do when I get on my boat is turn the b..y thing off & put it in the locker with my car keys. I only turn it on after I have arrived, where ever that is, to let the wife know I am Ok( she already does because she tracks me via AIS online) then it goes back in the locker.
As for W3W, never heard of it before - If I was asked, I would probably have answered ---"Come f...g quick"--- & given that position wherever I was.
dunedin
Well-known member
The OS National Grid Reference is fast becoming obsolete on land. Unless you are carrying a paper OS map and compass, have visibility to take a bearing, and knowledge of how to determine position using such things. How many people carry paper OS maps these days, let alone the rest of it.
And your phone will generally give a position accurate to 10m or so. But unless you know about these things, and/or have a suitable App, it is very difficult to get a UK only National Grid Reference from your phone.
For land use W3W solves all these problems. Ditto for kayakers etc.
Nobody is suggesting replacing their ships ECDIS or yacht chart plotter with this.
Bristolfashion
Well-known member
My folks used to live in a long, major road with no numbers - just names. There was even a Littlecot, a Littlecote & a Little Cottage.
W3W would have made things much easier for deliveries!
W3W would have made things much easier for deliveries!
Daydream believer
Well-known member
Went cycling with mine today. Stayed within 5 mile radius of home, but wanted to check out a couple of lanes. I do see walkers with them so they are possibly used more than you think. Virtually no phone signal on the Dengie
TernVI
Well-known member
I agree the OS grid is obsolete. It doesn't do anything that lat and long on the wgs84 grid doesn't do better,
But you still need maps.
Unfortunately the OS seems intent on pricing itself out of the mainstream consumer market.
But I use OS maps and OS derived maps.
Lots of people have them on thier phones.
W3W does not on its own, avoid the need to have a map.
TernVI
Well-known member
As would some house numbers!