keelbolt
Well-Known Member
Yep, a great thread. But for someone about to buy a boat, its terrifying me. I think I might just put the purchase on hold for a few decades....
What lessons for this week
- Thread starter Javelin
- Start date
TwoHooter
Well-Known Member
That would be a pity. Why not do what we did? We started 2 years ago knowing absolutely nothing. We bought a small fairly inexpensive boat, found somewhere nice to keep it, and made sure boating is what we wanted to do. Once we had a boat we learned an awful lot about how do things ourselves, much more than when we were sitting at home reading about it, mainly because we talked to the people around us who have boats. If all you do is read about things you can get put off. Once you start doing it the problems certainly arise but most of the time they aren't as bad as they first seem. Just make sure you have a budget for maintenance and get a proper survey. Ask your local full-service boatyard for the name of a really good surveyor, not a nit-picker but someone who will find the serious faults that cost a lot to fix, knock the cost of fixing them off the price, get them fixed, and go boating. There is nothing like it. Absolutely nothing.
MagicalArmchair
Well-Known Member
Do it. Best way is to go in with lots of heart just enough head. Bought Triola with no knowledge and no money - if I would have counted the full cost in time and money there is no way I would have done it
. One unsecured loan later, my life was changed. Now she is all paid up, I have lots of new skills and an awesome full family hobby. You won't remember your financial position, you'll remember all the sailing or fiddling about on broken bits of boat (the harder and more infuriating the problem, the more satisfying it is when you've sorted it (my sheered off exhaust elbow bolt had me literally jumping for joy when it came out!)). I keep talking to folk in my business dealings who have done yacht masters, studied myriad books, but won't buy a flipping boat, despite an ardent desire and all the means to do so - which is mad considering what you can get for very little dosh indeed these days.
TwoHooter
Well-Known Member
This is why you should do it (pix last summer):-
Javelin
Well-Known Member
Owning a boat is not a head thing.
Owning a boat is all about the heart.
If you feel you should, then do it.
If you try and rationalise it, you will never do it.
Re this thread being scary.
If you went onto a car ownership forum on the net, full of folk with issues with their cars, you'd be reading the same posts you read here except with an automotive slant.
Probably won't stop you buying a car though.
The why?
Crack of dawn, 30 miles off Oostende, on our way home, my 19 year old on watch smiling, his girlfriend, his little sister and his mum fast asleep down below and me bringing up a couple of cups of tea, all after a fab 14 days mooching around Belgium and Holland.
You simply can't beat it.
Owning a boat is all about the heart.
If you feel you should, then do it.
If you try and rationalise it, you will never do it.
Re this thread being scary.
If you went onto a car ownership forum on the net, full of folk with issues with their cars, you'd be reading the same posts you read here except with an automotive slant.
Probably won't stop you buying a car though.
The why?
Crack of dawn, 30 miles off Oostende, on our way home, my 19 year old on watch smiling, his girlfriend, his little sister and his mum fast asleep down below and me bringing up a couple of cups of tea, all after a fab 14 days mooching around Belgium and Holland.
You simply can't beat it.
DownWest
Well-Known Member
+ several to that.
We used to do Burnam week in the early 60s. Had a mooring up the Crouch and the mornings were fantastic. Misty with the sun coming up, waterbirds all over. Breakfast on the go, while listening for the forcast. Magical. The racing was fun too, but I only remember the more dramatic bits now.
We used to do Burnam week in the early 60s. Had a mooring up the Crouch and the mornings were fantastic. Misty with the sun coming up, waterbirds all over. Breakfast on the go, while listening for the forcast. Magical. The racing was fun too, but I only remember the more dramatic bits now.
Javelin
Well-Known Member
Instrument panel just about finished bar the shortage of a 1m simnet cable that I can't find anywhere.
Bent on the sails on Lady of Hamford (Vashti) and the Fisher 25 this week.
After a pretty thorough quoting exercise we decided to go with North Sails.
I have to say they do a great job, perfect fit, lovely batten system, you can really see and feel the quality.
On the vashti we are having a traditional looking mainsheet system which results in the sheet tails being cleated on both the windward and leeward sides.
In turn this requires an endless sheet.
We chose to use a 12mm buff coloured 24platt matt rope which I can say was a pain to do an endless splice on but I got there in the end.
The genoa sheets are 14mm slightly different shade buff braid on braid.
Next I need to invent a traditional looking kicking strap that works which given the huge length of boom won't be easy.
I'll probably use dyneema in a cascade but need to disguise it somehow so I plan to get some standard 6mm buff double braid and strip the core out and replace it with dyneema.
Bent on the sails on Lady of Hamford (Vashti) and the Fisher 25 this week.
After a pretty thorough quoting exercise we decided to go with North Sails.
I have to say they do a great job, perfect fit, lovely batten system, you can really see and feel the quality.
On the vashti we are having a traditional looking mainsheet system which results in the sheet tails being cleated on both the windward and leeward sides.
In turn this requires an endless sheet.
We chose to use a 12mm buff coloured 24platt matt rope which I can say was a pain to do an endless splice on but I got there in the end.
The genoa sheets are 14mm slightly different shade buff braid on braid.
Next I need to invent a traditional looking kicking strap that works which given the huge length of boom won't be easy.
I'll probably use dyneema in a cascade but need to disguise it somehow so I plan to get some standard 6mm buff double braid and strip the core out and replace it with dyneema.
neil1967
Well-Known Member
Instrument panel looks to be a good job, but isn't it a bit vulnerable to clumsy feet in seaboots?
Javelin
Well-Known Member
Yes that is a danger however this new panel replaces one I made a few years back and we found it rarely if ever got hit, so I thought it was worth the risk.
Plus if anyone dares kick the zeus2 they will be keelhauled with extreme prejudiced.
This is the earlier one I made.
A tail of two props today.
First was an H6 Autoprop on a Nic39.
These open bearing types aren't made anymore but we do see one or two on a regular basis.
Whilst the blades rotate freely they also wobble too freely.
One trick is to pop out the little plastic plugs, fold down the locking tabs and loosen the lock bolt on each blade and tighten the main bearing hub by half a turn.
Test the rotation again and if still free and wobble free just fold up the tab and replace the plastic cap.
In this case however the balls in the upper race were badly worn and the ss race badly pitted.
Bruntons do a bearing replacement kit for £280 which sounds a bit steep but does include all the balls, races, caps etc.
Even though the prop is cira 1983 its still in pretty good condition and a bit of work and the prop will look like its 5 years old instead of 30 odd.
The other tale concerns Blue Waters, a lovely 1936 Thornycroft Twin Screw motor yacht.
We decided to haul her out today and I fired her up and maneuvered out into the river.
Hmmm, this feels a bit strange, stbd engine seems down on power,
She's not going to turn to port easily which is a pain as the slip is to port against the flood.
To cut a longish story short we made it ok and I fully expected to see a rope round the prop or something.
I didn't expect to see a complete blade missing !
Javelin
Well-Known Member
Another busy week for us with lots of boats going in, thankfully.
Here's a picky of the Colvic Watson going in.
Significant as from this photo there is no mark near the sling on the port qtr, however between this photo and being tied up on our pontoon somehow there was a scrape through the paintwork.
It will obviously be fixed but its a bit of a mystery how it happened.
This along with the other boats going in did free up some much needed space which did allow me to get my own boat out, at last!
Anodes on the sail drive were well down but still some meat left (10%)
The fouling was interesting in as much as there was not a single barnacle to be seen but lots of these dangly sea squirts.
I had tried the Jotun Mare Nostrum anti-foul and the boats been in for 10 months.
To be fair she's not moved off her mooring for 6 months, so I guess its not too bad considering.
Think I'll swap over to Seajet though for this season.
As an aside this next shot was taken from my bench.
Can't be many that can see their pride and joy from their work place.
Work on the Southwold Flagpoles is almost complete.
They've been painted and the fittings bolted on and in the process of being painted.
We did however have to make up a new oak tabernacle as the old one was rotten on close inspection on site.
Rigging to go on and getting them delivered (no mean feat) are the next tasks.
Talking of masts, I stepped the Oyster 435 mast today with new standing rigging.
This new sta-lok rigging came with their flashy new turnbuckles.
I think they look great and having tensioned up the rig this afternoon, they are nice to use.
I've had a couple of requests to cover the rebuild of the Autoprop that is fitted to the Nicholson 39.
The kit from Bruntons, as I've said above somewhere, isn't cheap but they do supply everything you need.
First thing to do once you have the prop off is to firstly give it a cursory quick clean.
Then you need to remove the old bearing race's.
To do this there is a threaded m6 hole (see red arrow) which you can wind a short machine screw into which in turn pushes out the old races.
Once all the races have been removed you can give the whole boss a good clean up.
I used a mix of scraper, wire brush and a quick once over on our buffer.
The position the boss carefully in a vice.
The new races simply push in with no difficulty.
Followed by the first lot of ball bearings.
The blades race and be fitted and then the blade placed onto the balls.
Then the small balls are dropped in and the top race pushed in.
Lastly the retaining screw is fitted.
Torqued up to 14ft/pds and then backed off until the blade is free to move but no bearing wobble.
The little 10mm bolt in the centre locks it all up when you're happy.
Bend up the locking tabs and push the plastic caps on and you're done.
Here's the completed prop with just the anode to be fitted and maybe a final polish.
Not too bad for a thirty year old feathering prop.
Here's a picky of the Colvic Watson going in.
Significant as from this photo there is no mark near the sling on the port qtr, however between this photo and being tied up on our pontoon somehow there was a scrape through the paintwork.
It will obviously be fixed but its a bit of a mystery how it happened.
This along with the other boats going in did free up some much needed space which did allow me to get my own boat out, at last!
Anodes on the sail drive were well down but still some meat left (10%)
The fouling was interesting in as much as there was not a single barnacle to be seen but lots of these dangly sea squirts.
I had tried the Jotun Mare Nostrum anti-foul and the boats been in for 10 months.
To be fair she's not moved off her mooring for 6 months, so I guess its not too bad considering.
Think I'll swap over to Seajet though for this season.
As an aside this next shot was taken from my bench.
Can't be many that can see their pride and joy from their work place.
Work on the Southwold Flagpoles is almost complete.
They've been painted and the fittings bolted on and in the process of being painted.
We did however have to make up a new oak tabernacle as the old one was rotten on close inspection on site.
Rigging to go on and getting them delivered (no mean feat) are the next tasks.
Talking of masts, I stepped the Oyster 435 mast today with new standing rigging.
This new sta-lok rigging came with their flashy new turnbuckles.
I think they look great and having tensioned up the rig this afternoon, they are nice to use.
I've had a couple of requests to cover the rebuild of the Autoprop that is fitted to the Nicholson 39.
The kit from Bruntons, as I've said above somewhere, isn't cheap but they do supply everything you need.
First thing to do once you have the prop off is to firstly give it a cursory quick clean.
Then you need to remove the old bearing race's.
To do this there is a threaded m6 hole (see red arrow) which you can wind a short machine screw into which in turn pushes out the old races.
Once all the races have been removed you can give the whole boss a good clean up.
I used a mix of scraper, wire brush and a quick once over on our buffer.
The position the boss carefully in a vice.
The new races simply push in with no difficulty.
Followed by the first lot of ball bearings.
The blades race and be fitted and then the blade placed onto the balls.
Then the small balls are dropped in and the top race pushed in.
Lastly the retaining screw is fitted.
Torqued up to 14ft/pds and then backed off until the blade is free to move but no bearing wobble.
The little 10mm bolt in the centre locks it all up when you're happy.
Bend up the locking tabs and push the plastic caps on and you're done.
Here's the completed prop with just the anode to be fitted and maybe a final polish.
Not too bad for a thirty year old feathering prop.
alahol2
Well-Known Member
I am thoroughly intrigued...
Who painted the fish/dolphin on the keel of the Colvic and why?
Does it signify something?
Rivers & creeks
Well-Known Member
We don't don't know, each year it appears just before launch. It's very spooky.
Thanks to HMS who did such a great job with the radical surgery needed on LK. New engine sounds great; exhaust is a great job; new stern tube is now right for the boat not a lash up; the rudder doesn't act like a hole in the boat; the engine bay smells sweet not vile; the new fuel tank doesn't weight 400kg and rusting away; we have double the water capacity; the bilge pump works; the stern void is filled rather than a stinking pool of water and oil; the steering hydraulics are now good for another 25 years; did I say that the boat don't smell no more?
But why that fish keeps appearing is a mystery.
Thanks to HMS who did such a great job with the radical surgery needed on LK. New engine sounds great; exhaust is a great job; new stern tube is now right for the boat not a lash up; the rudder doesn't act like a hole in the boat; the engine bay smells sweet not vile; the new fuel tank doesn't weight 400kg and rusting away; we have double the water capacity; the bilge pump works; the stern void is filled rather than a stinking pool of water and oil; the steering hydraulics are now good for another 25 years; did I say that the boat don't smell no more?
But why that fish keeps appearing is a mystery.
Sticky Fingers
Well-Known Member
Top job. That's some list of improvements...!
TwoHooter
Well-Known Member
It's lovely to see things being maintained and mended, not just thrown away and replaced.
Rivers & creeks
Well-Known Member
It's the right yard for that. Enough staff that there is skill and experience but not a huge operation that leaves you part of a big group of boats all having bits of work done. It must also be the finest collection of classic wooden motor boats and wooden motorsailers on the east coast. A lucky find for us, especially with a few more years of off season work to do. Wait until Javelin starts posting about the rig change, if I can persuade him it's the right hing to do...
Javelin
Well-Known Member
Currently sitting in the marina at rams gate having delivered the Fisher 25. (She sailed really well, just less than 11 hours from Southwold!)
Anyway I'm looking at a couple of Legend's, a 33 and the other must be 40 odd.
Neither has a back Stay!
Guess they rely on the swept spreaders to keep the mast up.
Not sure I'm over keen on that idea especially as the inters are linked at the spreader tip.
Anyway I'm looking at a couple of Legend's, a 33 and the other must be 40 odd.
Neither has a back Stay!
Guess they rely on the swept spreaders to keep the mast up.
Not sure I'm over keen on that idea especially as the inters are linked at the spreader tip.
Birdseye
Well-Known Member
That man is an idiot. The forestay is arguably the most important stay of all.
But some people are stupid about money. I once helped a consultant surgeon who had a fire on board his boat. The main engine electrical leads shorted out when the engine shifted in bad weather and the sump flange cut into the wiring. Not only did they set fire to the woodwork but the red hot wires which were laid on the battery tops melted through the tops to leave the plates bare . Anyway, I re-wired the leads to the engine but the owner would not replace the batteries on the basis that they were new that year. So a guy with a bob or three and the professional knowledge of what acid does to the skin ( let alone my jeans in helping him) just bodged a patch over the tops pf the plates and off he sailed.
Javelin
Well-Known Member
Lots has happened here over the past week or two.
Firstly the Fisher 25 we refitted way back last year and finished is January this year, was delivered and handed over to her new owner at Ramsgate and is now off on her way to SW France.
The sail down acted as sea trials and we had factored in a stop off at Harwich if we weren't happy with anything.
As it turned out we had 20+ knts up our transom all the way and it only took 10 1/2 hours from Southwold to tied up in Ramsgate.
On the way I pretty much when through every sail configuration you could have.
Partly to test stuff out and also to try and find a way of stopping her rolling like a stuffed pig as my crew was feeling pretty green most of the way.
In the end the best solution was main down, genoa boomed out one side, the staysail out the other on the retractable sprit and the mizzen sheeted as if on a reach.
The new Belgian owner, Olivier, was delighted with what we'd managed to do with a 1974 fisher 25 as with his instructions had recreated a replica of a boat he had previously owned some 40 years ago.
In shed 3 we have a lovely little classic in for re planking.
She'd been replanked before but they had used larch and not the original ceder.
The Larch is frankly shot so we're replanking in white ceder.
To maintain the shape and save the process of building a full jig we're going to plank two boards at a time on alternate sides.
I noticed a thread on here on a holed rudder.
Well as luck would have it I was handed a rudder blade from a 28ft Cat. (not sure what breed)
The blade was split and was full of water and mud.
So the first job was to split into two sections which was disturbingly easy to do.
Next was a bit of head scratching to work out how and why it was originally built.
It looks like it used to have been foam filled but at some stage it was split and the foam removed and an epoxy flange added round the edge and then bonding paste used to stick it back together with a couple of foam pillars.
However they had not reinforced the areas where the rudder brackets were bolted through, which have now ovaled, cracked and allowed water in and the crack traveled with the result that the blade was just about to fail in a big way.
So after a good clean I've started to beef up, significantly the mounting and high stress areas using 450gm mat and core mat as a bulker.
Also I've given the old flange a good hammering and removed the sections that showed the slightest sign of weakness and have started to rebuild the flange at the bottom of the blade.
Work continues...
What else, ah yes the mast (flagpole) rebuild we did is finished and we erected them in Southwold just in time for the Queens Birthday.
I hope she approves.
Lastly I removed the B&G speed sensor from my boat so I could fit the new Airmar Triducer as supplied with my new B&G kit.
Now this might be old and now not compatible with nk2 stuff but the method they used to fit these was vastly superior in my view than the modern sensors.
The feel and quality of the new triducer is nowhere near as substantial and what really riles me is the one that is supplied via B&G only has a 2m cable, which frankly is nowhere near long enough to get anywhere near my backbone cable.
If I'd got this sensor direct from Airmar instead of via Navico, it would have come with a 5m cable for the same price.
Grrrr.
Firstly the Fisher 25 we refitted way back last year and finished is January this year, was delivered and handed over to her new owner at Ramsgate and is now off on her way to SW France.
The sail down acted as sea trials and we had factored in a stop off at Harwich if we weren't happy with anything.
As it turned out we had 20+ knts up our transom all the way and it only took 10 1/2 hours from Southwold to tied up in Ramsgate.
On the way I pretty much when through every sail configuration you could have.
Partly to test stuff out and also to try and find a way of stopping her rolling like a stuffed pig as my crew was feeling pretty green most of the way.
In the end the best solution was main down, genoa boomed out one side, the staysail out the other on the retractable sprit and the mizzen sheeted as if on a reach.
The new Belgian owner, Olivier, was delighted with what we'd managed to do with a 1974 fisher 25 as with his instructions had recreated a replica of a boat he had previously owned some 40 years ago.
In shed 3 we have a lovely little classic in for re planking.
She'd been replanked before but they had used larch and not the original ceder.
The Larch is frankly shot so we're replanking in white ceder.
To maintain the shape and save the process of building a full jig we're going to plank two boards at a time on alternate sides.
I noticed a thread on here on a holed rudder.
Well as luck would have it I was handed a rudder blade from a 28ft Cat. (not sure what breed)
The blade was split and was full of water and mud.
So the first job was to split into two sections which was disturbingly easy to do.
Next was a bit of head scratching to work out how and why it was originally built.
It looks like it used to have been foam filled but at some stage it was split and the foam removed and an epoxy flange added round the edge and then bonding paste used to stick it back together with a couple of foam pillars.
However they had not reinforced the areas where the rudder brackets were bolted through, which have now ovaled, cracked and allowed water in and the crack traveled with the result that the blade was just about to fail in a big way.
So after a good clean I've started to beef up, significantly the mounting and high stress areas using 450gm mat and core mat as a bulker.
Also I've given the old flange a good hammering and removed the sections that showed the slightest sign of weakness and have started to rebuild the flange at the bottom of the blade.
Work continues...
What else, ah yes the mast (flagpole) rebuild we did is finished and we erected them in Southwold just in time for the Queens Birthday.
I hope she approves.
Lastly I removed the B&G speed sensor from my boat so I could fit the new Airmar Triducer as supplied with my new B&G kit.
Now this might be old and now not compatible with nk2 stuff but the method they used to fit these was vastly superior in my view than the modern sensors.
The feel and quality of the new triducer is nowhere near as substantial and what really riles me is the one that is supplied via B&G only has a 2m cable, which frankly is nowhere near long enough to get anywhere near my backbone cable.
If I'd got this sensor direct from Airmar instead of via Navico, it would have come with a 5m cable for the same price.
Grrrr.
KevinT1
Well-Known Member
Thanks Javelin, as always your posts are absolute gems.
sarabande
Well-Known Member
craftsmanship, customer service, and a willingness to share a high level of practical skills. What more could a good PBO thread need ?
