What boat for my circumstances?

tommy2

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Out of interest does anyone know what trailer sailer has the best capsize screening formula? I guess there is nothing below 2 out there?
 

srm

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Out of interest does anyone know what trailer sailer has the best capsize screening formula? I guess there is nothing below 2 out there?
Not a good measure as it only uses displacement and beam. Any two boats with that same pair of measures will have the same CSF though in reality their range of positive stability and righting moments could be very different: lets say if one is a deepish keel design with ballast in the keel and the other a shallow hull with internal ballast and drop plate.

In reality GZ curves would make a far better comparison, but can be difficult to find as some manufacturers are shy of publishing them.

Some years ago there was a trailer sailer at the Toronto boat show. The young guy was very enthusiastic about how wonderful it was until I asked for the angle of vanishing stability. An older person on the stand managed to walk me away from the presenter and audience, but never answered my question. A basic design/safety question had marked me as a trouble maker.
 

tommy2

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What about a nice Westerly Pageant ? 23ft ... standing headroom .... with a trailer - tractor will have no problem. Max draft just under 3ft so plus trailer .... looking about 4.5 - 5ft water on slip as minimum. Bilge keel so no storage problems. Mast is deck stepped and two people can raise / lower .... with A frame as I have - a one man job.

Jaguar 22 Lift Keel .... but limited headroom

Snapdragons .... from 19 to 27ft ... lift and Bilge keel

Mirage

Thanks for your suggestions. Many of those boats are very reasonably priced. Do you think it would be possible to sail all of them with the trailer?
 

William_H

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My first reaction to this question is don't buy a boat perhaps buy a caravan. Then perhaps you can carry kayaks or ali dinghy on 4x4 roof as many caravaners here do.
Anyway buying a boat? What you obviously need to do is find a boat that leaves you (and your friends/family))satisfied and keen long term. Just a small portion of boat buyers achieve this. So much depends on yourself not so much the boat.
You can not avoid the fact that a bigger heavier boat is desirable when the weather turns rough. Just a far better motion. A small boat can survive almost anything but not necessarily the crew. (survive here means willing to go out again on another voyage)
But you can not avoid the fact that bigger boat means more cost in keeping it. Somewhere is the right balance for you. What would be good is if you can cadge a ride on someone else's boat (or get sailing lessons) This might help you in to a good decision. ol'will
 

Tranona

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Yes but the asking price was not even in reach of what I found online. Last year I found examples of the same Achilles triple keel boat for £1500. Thats a massive way off £6500. I guess some people just don't need / want to sell. If they don't need the money, they can just hang onto it forever more.

Looking around, boats in Scandinavia seem to be a fair bit cheaper. I even toyed with the idea of finding something in Scandinavia and paying someone to sail it over with me across the North Sea. Don't think I would like to do a trip like that on my own quite yet.
Once you start actually viewing these "cheap" old boats you will quickly discover why asking prices vary so much - it reflects both the quality of what is on offer (fit for scrap heap up to much loved and ready to go) and the demand in a particular area. So all looking on line does is tell you what is on offer and the prices asked NOT the comparative value of the boats, particularly as I explained down at this price level the cost of moving it from one location to another can easily exceed the purchase price,

Boats are cheap in Scandinavia as nobody there wants cheap old boats and it is physically and economically impossible to sell them outside Scandinavia. You cannot import such boats into the UK without paying VAT and getting the boat certified to UK standards which they will not meet.

What is available and the prices paid is determined solely by the local market - so in Scotland the demand exceeds supply so prices are higher. Cheap in many parts of the south because demand is low and supply high. This differential is maintained by the high cost of moving boats from the areas of low demand to those of high. Very simple A level economics!
 

Refueler

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Owners always have an inflated view of the value of their boat when it comes to selling. They need to be gently guided to a realistic price. Its been on the market for a while so there are obviously few potential buyers around. When selling my last boat the broker expected offers at 20% below asking, and that was in a popular sailing area. You could open negotiations a lot lower if you are convinced the boat will suit you.

@Tranona was spot on about having to allow for the extra costs of getting a boat home, whether by road or by sea. I always use the latter but that is for boats a bit bigger than you are looking at. I have sailed the length of Britain a few times as a result, usually after a month or so full time getting the boat ready.

When I have posted that Sellers have rosy specs when setting price - I have been bombed by many !

Glad to see I am not alone in thinking sellers prices !
 

Refueler

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Boats are cheap in Scandinavia as nobody there wants cheap old boats and it is physically and economically impossible to sell them outside Scandinavia. You cannot import such boats into the UK without paying VAT and getting the boat certified to UK standards which they will not meet.

Certified to UK standards ????? Where'd that come from ?

Plenty of Scandy boats sell and move out of Scandy land ... with no problem at all .... of course if it moves out of EEA area - then VAT is due ... but that's it.
Depending on Flag state - yes you may have to add a few safety items ... but UK ?? UK as far as I am aware is still not one that requires standards on a private non commercial boat.
 

Refueler

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Thanks for your suggestions. Many of those boats are very reasonably priced. Do you think it would be possible to sail all of them with the trailer?

Its funny you ask that .... when I sold my Snap 23 ... guy didn't want the trailer. (Silly man ... but his choice). But he did ask if it was feasible to float the boat and sail it with trailer made fast under .....
I smiled and commented that it could be done - but was inadvisable.

I have known a guy do it with a lighter yard trailer ...

It crossed my mind a few days ago ... I am considering a larger boat this year (still keep the SR 25 as its perfect for the river etc) ... most likely a long keeler ... so needs cradle. Would probably be a Swedish sale ... so thoughts of launching with cradle made fast under has been considered ... sail over to Latvia ... my mate lifts all onto his flat bed and truck to home.

Sounds daft - but why not ?
 

Iliade

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If you are going to be towing and launching it with a tractor, how about a Westerly Centaur? Typically just over 3.5T, very tough and capable boats, 2000 odd built. Also if the journey is short and there are no power lines or bridges, do you need to take the mast down? (Probably some law to say you do, but is there any law that far north?)

That said, I'd get something with an inside steering position. Second purchase would be some sort of autopilot/self-steering.
 

Refueler

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If you are going to be towing and launching it with a tractor, how about a Westerly Centaur? Typically just over 3.5T, very tough and capable boats, 2000 odd built. Also if the journey is short and there are no power lines or bridges, do you need to take the mast down? (Probably some law to say you do, but is there any law that far north?)

That said, I'd get something with an inside steering position. Second purchase would be some sort of autopilot/self-steering.

I have a boat that is basically in same class as the Centaur / Colvic 26 ..... and to consider for OP ? Of course I am biased and would like to say yes ... but in reality - its a No.

The mast requires care to lower and raise ... I have already snapped my mast foot and had to repair it. The Centaur usually has the blade mast foot as I have and this requires either mob handed approach, crane or decent A Frame to work.
3.5T ...... that weight I would suggest to you is empty and a few years ago before it absorbed water in the hull ... my SR25 runs nigh on 4T ... in full loaded up ... it tips the 4T mark.

Centaur - answer yes - if OP decides to not trailer sail.
 

Refueler

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That was my first thought. Very tough boats and lifting keel so a bit easier to get on a trailer. No trailer-sailer though, and bit of a squeeze inside by all accounts.


That is main factor ... headroom ....

My Alacrity 19 was a great boat really loved it .... but no headroom.

The Snapdragon replaced the A 19 because of that ... but even she was not full HR.

It will always be a compromise.
 

tommy2

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If you are going to be towing and launching it with a tractor, how about a Westerly Centaur? Typically just over 3.5T, very tough and capable boats, 2000 odd built. Also if the journey is short and there are no power lines or bridges, do you need to take the mast down? (Probably some law to say you do, but is there any law that far north?)

I did look at the Westerly Centaur and this guys website seems to really rate it. He calls it the " best small yacht in the world"
Westerly Centaur – the best small yacht in the world – probably « Keep Turning Left

I have also seen the Westerly Centaur's on car trailers, so I don't think I would have too much problem sourcing a trailer. I could even consider
the Westerly Pageant 23, but not sure how capable that is if it get rough?

As for your suggestion, thats exactly what I was planning to do is leave the mast up. I am only 1 mile from the harbour. I don't know whether its technically illegal, but if sensible about this, I can't see big problems. You never see a police car around here in any case. Even if you have an emergency, it takes them about 3 hours to get to you!
 

Refueler

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I did look at the Westerly Centaur and this guys website seems to really rate it. He calls it the " best small yacht in the world"
Westerly Centaur – the best small yacht in the world – probably « Keep Turning Left

I have also seen the Westerly Centaur's on car trailers, so I don't think I would have too much problem sourcing a trailer. I could even consider
the Westerly Pageant 23, but not sure how capable that is if it get rough?

As for your suggestion, thats exactly what I was planning to do is leave the mast up. I am only 1 mile from the harbour. I don't know whether its technically illegal, but if sensible about this, I can't see big problems. You never see a police car around here in any case. Even if you have an emergency, it takes them about 3 hours to get to you!

As far as I am aware ... Road rules govern WEIGHT ... LENGTH .... WIDTH .... as regards height - that I believe is still only limited by any obstacles during the journey such as telephone wires / bridges etc.

As regards the Pageant ... it is just as capable of rough as the Centaur and other boats of similar size.

As per KPL ... you have to remember that he leaves the boat wherever he stops ... ready for next leg when he returns.

I would suggest care when considering a car trailer for a Pageant or Centaur .... many car trailers cannot take that weight. Its not the frame - its the axle / wheels .... its a method I considered for my boat ... but found it not to be so easy or cheap to find such capable. Also dunking such into saltwater would soon have it failing ... brakes locking up, frame corroding, all manner of problems. I would think that most have had boat lifted by crane onto the trailer.
 

fredrussell

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That is main factor ... headroom ....

My Alacrity 19 was a great boat really loved it .... but no headroom.

The Snapdragon replaced the A 19 because of that ... but even she was not full HR.

It will always be a compromise.
True enough, but I’d rather have a sea-kindly boat without headroom than vice versa, especially if I was sailing in northern Scottish waters.
 
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