What’s included in a sale!

[sunquest]

Upon receiving an offer for a boat I understand the infantry logged on the sale details are included. However I have been told that any fuel on board at the time of the offer is also included, no more no less. As the potential buyer isn’t aware of the quantity and I am talking in excess of 900 ltrs. what is your opinion?
Not directly relevant, I understand a survey includes a lift out and bum scrub at a cost to the potential buyer as is the fuel consumed on a sea trial, does this have a bearing on the outcome? Thanks in advance Geoff.

 

[jac]

AIUI though the boat is typically no longer in use once offer made and accepted ( sea trials excepted) so is this not an academic exercise?

As a purchaser i would assume that there would no serious further use of the boat by the existing owner once my offer has been accepted and that boat equipment would therefore remain on board unless specifically excluded - I would place Fuel into that category as it would surely be unreasonable to assume that the owner is going to transfer several hundred liters of fuel ( presumably red diesel) to suitable containers.

If it's an issue i would ensure that the particulars state roughly how much fuel is included based on what the fuel gauge / sight gauge is showing. Ultimatly though - there has to be some element of trust here or where do you stop. Is the owner going to drain the nearly new oil from the engine? take the filters / impellors etc.

 

[RivalRedwing]

If it is a significant concern and if you are going through a broker then I would seek agreement with them as to the amount of fuel included in the sale and define how the fuel volume is going to be measured (easy if there is a gauge). If buying privately then caveat emptor and assume the worst.

 

[graham]

I really wouldn't upset a potential buyer by asking for money for fuel in the tank.If it was in there when viewed I would consider it part of the sale inventory.

If the buyer doesn't know how much is there then it's up to your conscience.

 

[NotBirdseye]

Upon receiving an offer for a boat I understand the infantry logged on the sale details are included. However I have been told that any fuel on board at the time of the offer is also included, no more no less. As the potential buyer isn’t aware of the quantity and I am talking in excess of 900 ltrs. what is your opinion?
Not directly relevant, I understand a survey includes a lift out and bum scrub at a cost to the potential buyer as is the fuel consumed on a sea trial, does this have a bearing on the outcome? Thanks in advance Geoff.

I'd take it, not often you get a boat that comes with infantry up for sale! (I assume autocorrect?)

Personally, he's including it simply because he can't be bothered to take it out. Any fuel that is consumed won't be replaced.

 

[duncan99210]

A boat with a 900 litre tank isn’t going to be a cheap one, so the value of the volume of fuel included is going to be a vanishingly small % of the overall price. I’d not loose any sleep over the fuel included in the sale unless there’s other factors driving concerns about the overall deal.

The costs involved in the survey are all down to the buyer. That’d include moving the boat to lift out location, lifting and relaunching. No scrub unless the buyer chooses to have a pressure wash down or the surveyor recommends it to enable a full inspection of a fouled hull and stern gear.

 

[graham]

Potential buyer would be silly not to pay for a scrub/jetwash of the bottom unless it's immediately obvious he won't be buying.

 

[Momac]

I have been told that any fuel on board at the time of the offer is also included, no more no less. As the potential buyer isn’t aware of the quantity and I am talking in excess of 900 ltrs. what is your opinion?

Sea trial fuel consumed would usually be at your cost as the vendor.
Nor would a buyer usually expect to have full fuel tanks at handover.

 

[JumbleDuck]

Upon receiving an offer for a boat I understand the infantry logged on the sale details are included.

I believe that any infantry supplied with the boat are, technically, "marines".

 

[Sandy]

Just make sure you "polish" any fuel before use.

 

[Sandy]

I believe that any infantry supplied with the boat are, technically, "marines".

Brilliant

 

[Jim@sea]

It has long been (in the Motor Trade) that if you make an offer for a vehicle whatever you see in the vehicle is included in the sale, unless it is specifically mentioned before hand that something is not included.
And I dont see any difference in selling a Boat.
(There was a famous (true) case where a Rolls Royce specialist (Scott Moncrieff) bought a RR Hearse from the Co-oP and there was a coffin inside. He drove it away with the coffin inside.
Then the Co-op wanted their Coffin back.
I cant actually remember if there was a body inside.
I was told this story in the early 1970's by one of the owners of BCA as he apparently knew Mr Moncrieff. and he was advising Auction managers to check contents of cars collected from fleet suppliers.

 

[fisherman]

I bought a fishing boat and made an inventory, mainly electronics and hydraulic fittings. The vendor then stripped various items, like the fire pump and steel ladder to the fish hold. I couldn't prove they were there, and didn't have time to take him on. Cost me £1k on £24k

 

[RJJ]

If you wanted to remove the fuel you should have done it before showing the boat.

Do you want to sell the boat, or have an awkward conversation about the fuel? What if the buyer did in fact eyeball the fuel gauge?

I say this because when I, not long ago, bought a boat, the seller (after we had shaken hands and money was transferred) made as if to offload "his" hosepipe, bucket, deck brush, winch handles and Jerry can. Bit embarrassing really. I persuaded him that they were on board at time of viewing and survey - most of them had even featured in his original broker photos.

 

[Graham376]

When I've sold a boat, I've always prepared an inventory listing everything included in the sale as the boats were still in limited use and had some personal belongings aboard. If a boat is laid up out of use and no inventory, then I would expect whatever is on board to be included unless specifically told otherwise. Only having bought and sold boats with smallish tanks, I've never even considered fuel.

 

[Stingo]

What about the Fray Bentos pies?

 

[Praxinoscope]

What about the Fray Bentos pies?

As long as you don’t describe them as meat pies you won’t fall foul of trade descriptions, the odds of finding a piece of meat in one are even worse than those for winning the National Lottery.

 

[lw395]

When I've sold a boat, I've always prepared an inventory listing everything included in the sale as the boats were still in limited use and had some personal belongings aboard. If a boat is laid up out of use and no inventory, then I would expect whatever is on board to be included unless specifically told otherwise. Only having bought and sold boats with smallish tanks, I've never even considered fuel.

That seems a common view to me.
I've viewed boats with all sorts of stuff aboard, which the owner has reasonably wanted to keep.
Oilskins, charts, loose tools.
I think if it's not on the inventory and it's not bolted to the boat, it isn't included unless you specifically discuss it.
When I make an offer I'm careful to be clear what I'm offering for.
I have bought and sold quite a few dinghies, there is often negotiation over 'extras' like spare sails, road trailers.

Fuel is an odd one. If you look at a boat that is in commission, the fuel could be used between your offer and survey, or even after the survey. Maybe one should consider adding a line to the agreement a bit like when businesses are sold with 'stock at value' as an extra. Because the business is still trading, the value of the stock goes up and down while the sale goes through, and the buyer pays whatever it happens to be on the day.

When I bought my last house, there were boxes on the standard inventory form for stocks of coal and heating oil.

At the end of the day, it's an agreement between two willing parties, it's up to them to agree what they want.

 

[yodave]

For what it’s worth, here’s my view as a buyer on the receiving end:

We bought our yacht from a broker in the Netherlands. When we viewed her in January 2011 she had two full tanks of fuel, and we bought her within a few days. The broker told us that the fuel tanks were full when we viewed her. When we returned to pick her up in March she had no fuel, and we immediately had to fork out 250 Euros that we hadn't expected to, just as we were setting off to cross the channel.

There were other things that we discovered retrospectively over and above the fuel. I guess from his point of view, he got away with pulling a fast one. Back in 2011 that left a bitter taste in our mouths, and to this day I would not recommend that broker to anyone.

 

[Stemar]

There's a big difference between €250's worth and half a tank on an average yacht, no more than a fifth of that, especially if the broker told you the tanks were full. The "man on the Clapham omnibus" would take that to mean they'll be full when you take possession, give or take a bit of manoeuvring around the marina. To my mind, removing that fuel was theft though. of course, proving it would be another matter.

OTOH, if no one mentions fuel, I'd expect to find enough to get me to the fuel pontoon, or be warned so I can bring a can.