Westerly headlining probs - is removing and just painting an option?

[obmij]

I know this is practical boat owner, but since you don't actually own the boat yet, why not get a quote to have the headlining redone professionally and make an offer that splits the difference?

Fwiw mine was held up with battons. Not perfect, but good enough not to undergo the disruption.

like others I would not leave bare / painted GRP. It will be a clammy mess.

 

[justanothersailboat]

By "flowcoated" you mean polyester resin gelcoat, but with added wax so it'll cure outside a mould? An Internyet search finds this stuff

Topcoat Resin/Flowcoat - Resin Library

...
Would be quite a lot of work for the whole interior but rendering the head compartment surface easily wiped-down seems a worthwhile mold-supressing goal, and once/if that was done then I could decide whether to take it any further.

Exactly. Easy wipedown was the aim!

I am not sure I believe that foam backed vinyl really offers protection against condensation. I have seen it get condensation-slick and I've also seen it apparently stay dry while damp and mould builds up trapped behind it. Ugh. Never again. I think that if you want to keep your boat warm you need to close down ventilation, after which you need a dehumidifier and a shore power connection and even that might not be enough.

If you are not really feeble it is better to leave a strong airflow through the boat while sleeping, at which point insulation is pointless but you won't have condensation problems. Once you're in your bedding the air temperature is almost irrelevant, English cold can't kill you, mould and stuffiness can. I've been totally happy with the forehatch wide down to about four c. Much less than that and the ice-stiff halyards and slick decks in the morning render sailing rather less fun for me. I appreciate this is insufficient if your name is Shackleton but he didn't have foam backed vinyl either... (How many modern AWBs have foam backed vinyl for that matter? We should exile the stuff back to the 70s...)

If you have ply ceiling panels, they're not preventing condensation - they're not air sealed to the deck. Condensation behind them is not great either. I replaced my rotting ceiling ply but didn't re-cover it, I want it to be able to dry out rather than trapping moisture in it in a vinyl bag. Also birch ply dyed white and lacquered looks far nicer than vile vinyl pleather. Fortunately saloon ceilings are the easy bit. It's awkward shapes in the v berth, and where saloon meets cockpit, that pose trickier choices.

It would be interesting to really insulate a boat but reconciling a proper vapour barrier with glassed-in bulkheads would take a bunch of thought and effort. I'd be curious to try but if it wasn't a totally joined-up plan it would be storing up problems.

 

[Akestor]

Without insulation there will be a significant problem with condensation from the inside.

 

[ducked]

Exactly. Easy wipedown was the aim!

I am not sure I believe that foam backed vinyl really offers protection against condensation. I have seen it get condensation-slick and I've also seen it apparently stay dry while damp and mould builds up trapped behind it. Ugh. Never again. I think that if you want to keep your boat warm you need to close down ventilation, after which you need a dehumidifier and a shore power connection and even that might not be enough.

If you are not really feeble it is better to leave a strong airflow through the boat while sleeping, at which point insulation is pointless but you won't have condensation problems. Once you're in your bedding the air temperature is almost irrelevant, English cold can't kill you, mould and stuffiness can. I've been totally happy with the forehatch wide down to about four c. Much less than that and the ice-stiff halyards and slick decks in the morning render sailing rather less fun for me. I appreciate this is insufficient if your name is Shackleton but he didn't have foam backed vinyl either... (How many modern AWBs have foam backed vinyl for that matter? We should exile the stuff back to the 70s...)

If you have ply ceiling panels, they're not preventing condensation - they're not air sealed to the deck. Condensation behind them is not great either. I replaced my rotting ceiling ply but didn't re-cover it, I want it to be able to dry out rather than trapping moisture in it in a vinyl bag. Also birch ply dyed white and lacquered looks far nicer than vile vinyl pleather. Fortunately saloon ceilings are the easy bit. It's awkward shapes in the v berth, and where saloon meets cockpit, that pose trickier choices.

It would be interesting to really insulate a boat but reconciling a proper vapour barrier with glassed-in bulkheads would take a bunch of thought and effort. I'd be curious to try but if it wasn't a totally joined-up plan it would be storing up problems.

I spent a year sleeping in a Nissan Sunny while doing a Masters at Aberdeen University, but then I moved to Taiwan for a decade or two, and carelessly became old, so it remains to be seen how feeble I am now.

Certainly the air is generally a lot cleaner in Scotland, encouraging ventilation, though not quite so much in Boness, where the boat is.

Flued heating, powered by diesel, charcoal or butane, if it were possible to arrange that, seems to have some potential to remove water vapour without being plugged in to shore power though.

 

[ducked]

Two reasons not to simply paint the f/glass.
1/ You plan to keep the boat for 20 years, do you really want to live with a daggy looking interior for all that time?
2/ You are reducing the - limited - insulation that the foam backed vinyl provides.

What model Westerly? Mine is a Sealord, head liner is foam backed vinyl glued to plywood panels, cabin sides were foam backed vinyl simply glued to the hull.
Had all but the fore cabin professionally done 25 years ago. I have long since forgotten the price

Since then I have increased the insulation by gluing 4mm EVA foam directly to the deckhead and then replacing the ply/vinyl panels. The EVA foam is cheap, just buy camping mats and trim to size.
Inside the lockers I have replaced the vinyl with 6mm EVA with the 'silver' face.

The fore cabin aka the 'Black Hole of Calcutta but Colder and Wetter'?
I had an upholsterer in NZ do most of that ten years ago. He did the ply panels but was disinclined to do the coachroof sides and aft bulkhead with vinyl and suggested 'carpet'. Was remarkably successful - no condensation at all even under extreme conditions.
Once again I did the locker insides and a few other bits with the 6mm silver backed EVA.
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I'd be tempted to leave it all silvery, Gary Glitters Gondola stylee.

 

[Refueler]

I spent a year sleeping in a Nissan Sunny while doing a Masters at Aberdeen University, but then I moved to Taiwan for a decade or two, and carelessly became old, so it remains to be seen how feeble I am now.

Certainly the air is generally a lot cleaner in Scotland, encouraging ventilation, though not quite so much in Boness, where the boat is.

Flued heating, powered by diesel, charcoal or butane, if it were possible to arrange that, seems to have some potential to remove water vapour without being plugged in to shore power though.

Heating will raise the airs ability to retain moisture ... turn the heating off and where does all that excess moisture go ??

 

[PaulRainbow]

Exactly. Easy wipedown was the aim!

I am not sure I believe that foam backed vinyl really offers protection against condensation. I have seen it get condensation-slick and I've also seen it apparently stay dry while damp and mould builds up trapped behind it. Ugh. Never again. I think that if you want to keep your boat warm you need to close down ventilation, after which you need a dehumidifier and a shore power connection and even that might not be enough.

You don't seem to understand how condensation works. Lack of ventilation increases it. A person creates about 400g of water vapour per day, where do you suppose this goes if there is no ventilation ?

If you are not really feeble it is better to leave a strong airflow through the boat while sleeping, at which point insulation is pointless but you won't have condensation problems. Once you're in your bedding the air temperature is almost irrelevant, English cold can't kill you, mould and stuffiness can. I've been totally happy with the forehatch wide down to about four c. Much less than that and the ice-stiff halyards and slick decks in the morning render sailing rather less fun for me. I appreciate this is insufficient if your name is Shackleton but he didn't have foam backed vinyl either... (How many modern AWBs have foam backed vinyl for that matter? We should exile the stuff back to the 70s...)

Are we going for "strong airflow" or "close down ventilation" ?

If you have ply ceiling panels, they're not preventing condensation - they're not air sealed to the deck. Condensation behind them is not great either. I replaced my rotting ceiling ply but didn't re-cover it, I want it to be able to dry out rather than trapping moisture in it in a vinyl bag. Also birch ply dyed white and lacquered looks far nicer than vile vinyl pleather. Fortunately saloon ceilings are the easy bit. It's awkward shapes in the v berth, and where saloon meets cockpit, that pose trickier choices.

How does warm air in the boat get through the layer of vinyl, 6mm of foam and a sheet of ply ? Condensation if formed when warm, moisture rich, air comes into contact with a cold surface.

It would be interesting to really insulate a boat but reconciling a proper vapour barrier with glassed-in bulkheads would take a bunch of thought and effort. I'd be curious to try but if it wasn't a totally joined-up plan it would be storing up problems.

My previous boat was a Westerly Discus, which i lived aboard for several years, all year round. The only places i had any condensation of not were some wardrobes, one where someone had removed the foam and just stuck the vinyl back and two others where the foam and vinyl had been removed and the surfaces painted white, the condensation used to literally run down the hull in these two. Everything was cured with some new foam backed vinyl.

I now live aboard a motorboat with my partner. All of the ceilings are foam backed vinyl, as are several other areas, including those around the windows. I had to replace the vinyl around the windows, the 35 year old ply was in perfect condition, apart from one small area where a leaky stanchion had caused some damage.

 

[Iliade]

A previous owner of my first boat had painted a lot of the locker interiors, the heads, and the bilges. Some of the paint was special anti-condensation paint, it didn't work. All the paint flaked off constantly, clogging the bilge pump, and didn't respond well to overpainting, or scraping and repainting with known brand paints either. I now use flowcoat for this purpose and it appears to last very well indeed.

That said, a lined boat is a more pleasant place to be and a lot dryer, so I would keep a lining of some description in the majority of the accommodation areas.