Wearing Lifejackets Whilst Sailing

[Clyde_Wanderer]

[QUOTE
Back to life jackets....would it be reasonable to think that "the less experienced" ones are the ones who haven't been brought up into a sailing family, and been sailing from the age of dot?

And those that have spent their life on the water don't feel the need for a lifejacket?[/QUOTE]

Would that not be classed as complaincy?

 

[bobgoode]

Who can tell me which famous sailor stated...
"every herring hangs by it's own tail" ... ?

If we legislate for the wearing of lifejackets we must then legislate what constitutes a suitable lifejacket. Afterall an old one will obviously not be as good as a new one()?) this will be followed by how they must be worn. Afterall a loose jacket is of little use...see the report on the "Ouso". Then we can make the wearing of crutch or thigh straps obligatory. Of course all of this will need an army of civil servants to police and a positive forest of paperwork...perhaps even a special page in our log book to record when they were donned and when they were removed.


A dangerous road to tred ... unlike car seat belts and motorcycle helmets, the legislation for which was based on not just the hazards to the body in a crash....both of which are significant.

 

[westernman]

What kind of boat would a life jacket be obligatory on?

1) The Queen Mary?
2) A cross channel ferry?
3) On the deck of the ferry going to the IOW?
4) A 300ft superyacht (that is bigger than the IOW ferry)?
5) A 50ft Bavaria?
6) A 25ft yacht?
7) A 10ft RIB
8) A blow up toy boat on the beach?
9) A lilo?

In what conditions?

1) Mill pond?
2) > F6
3) > F9


At what distance from the coast?

1) Obligatory only if less than 300m from the coast
2) Obligatory only if more than 1 mile from the coast?

Who for?

1) Only crew?
2) Only passengers?
3) Everyone?

Where?

1) Only on deck
2) Always - including down below?

etc etc.

Where is the problem which legislating is supposed to fix?

 

[Jamesuk]

Guess you don't live in the east end of London where every other bike is a single speed

There have been various reports on the effectiveness of cycle helmets. The cycle touring club are of the opinion that they do more harm to the image of cycling by making it look dangerous than it is, than they benefit the wearer in the event of he collision.

One fact often quoted it that in Aus where helmets are compulsory, cycle use has reduced and the death rate of cyclist (which is small anyway) has remained constant even though everyone wears a helmet.

Are the RNLI in danger of making sailing appear more dangerous than it is?

How many lives would PFDs save? Or have they saved in Ireland?

I feel it should be up to the individual (or skipper), and as such the individual has the right to make their own decision, and as such their decision should be respected.

We all do things that involve risk, whether it's crossing the road or driving a car.

How many people wear a helmet when driving a car, for example, when head injuries in car accident are a significant danger? There is a serious danger there but we as individuals asses the risk involve and act accordingly.

Are you suggesting cycle helmets are a gimmick?

 

[Jamesuk]

Sod the lifejacket, I would much prefer to put my faith in a decent safety harness and make sure I am clipped on!

I totally agree, I recommend the Spinlock Harness, comfy to wear because its going to save alot of agro if its used and some ******* on the helm steers the boat badly and a wave sends you back 20 feet from Bow to Stays.

 

[oldsaltoz]

.
Troll

.

 

[snooks]

Are you suggesting cycle helmets are a gimmick?

Not at all, I wouldn't wear one if I thought they were a gimick. But it's interesting to note the research that suggests that in some situations they adjust the leaverage of the head, and their effective is questionable in impacts over something like 20 mph

Also they are no good at all if you get crushed by a truck turning left, you're more or less dead then, helmet or not!

 

[snooks]

Would that not be classed as complaincy?

I don't think so, maybe rather than wearing a lifejacket all the time, eg even on a hot sunny windless day in the med, people who grew up sailing just wear
them when they feel it's prudent, and when experience has taught them it's a good idea. At night, leaving the cockpit in a blow, fog etc.

Yes there is always a risk of someone falling in, but there is also a risk of a car mounting the pavement I'm walking on and takin me out, but I still decide to go out of the house

 

[BrianH]

I don't think so, maybe rather than wearing a lifejacket all the time, eg even on a hot sunny windless day in the med, people who grew up sailing just wear them when they feel it's prudent, and when experience has taught them it's a good idea. At night, leaving the cockpit in a blow, fog etc.
Yes there is always a risk of someone falling in, but there is also a risk of a car mounting the pavement I'm walking on and takin me out, but I still decide to go out of the house

All very sensible. I sail in warm climates where any sort of extra body cover is a discomfort when one is already sweating from heat and humidity.

I can count donning a LJ on one hand during the last 25 years sailing mainly single-handed and that was because I needed the harness function in rough seas when going forward.

 

[bbg]

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Troll.

Seconded.

 

[gjgm]

I don't wear a bike helmet on engineering grounds: doubling the leverage arm around the cervical vertebrae in the even of a serious bump seems like a bad idea to me. But it's entirely your choice.

One of my boys came off his bike in inner London last month at night, busy street. Fortunately he didnt go under any car or lorry, and was well looked after by the ambulance crew et al.
First thing the doctors did was examine his helmet to see where any impact was, and how severe. He was lucky; just a bashed up face for a while.
I guess its the A+E rooms we should really ask about helmets

 

[Bosun Higgs]

I guess this might provoke some adverse reaction ....... but it is my experience of 40 years of sailing in dinghies and yachts.

A problem with age is that your mind gets fixed and you get stuck in your ways. You have difficulty recognising that there isnt always one "correct" way to do things.

I particularly liked the "train my crew" bit. Master under God eh?

 

[Ubergeekian]

One of my boys came off his bike in inner London last month at night, busy street. Fortunately he didnt go under any car or lorry, and was well looked after by the ambulance crew et al.
First thing the doctors did was examine his helmet to see where any impact was, and how severe. He was lucky; just a bashed up face for a while.
I guess its the A+E rooms we should really ask about helmets

Maybe, but they only see a subset of cases. The BMA officially supports helmets, but I saw a survey of neurosurgeons - the people who patch up the serious cases - and they were wholly against.

As far as I can see, helmets are very good at preventing minor grazes, reasonable at preventing small injuries and likely to make really bad accidents a lot worse. Not an easy call. I don't wear one.

 

[gjgm]

Maybe, but they only see a subset of cases. The BMA officially supports helmets, but I saw a survey of neurosurgeons - the people who patch up the serious cases - and they were wholly against.

As far as I can see, helmets are very good at preventing minor grazes, reasonable at preventing small injuries and likely to make really bad accidents a lot worse. Not an easy call. I don't wear one.

Not sure what you mean by only seeing a subset? Doesnt everyone go to A+E, first?
As regards the survey,my sister runs a neuro ward. They seem to have a different opinion to the survey you mention. Wearing a bike helmet is also a full requirement of any bike racing.
I m not advocating any requirement to wear one for leisure use, any more than one should have to wear a life jacket. I m sure there are occasions were either will be a life saver, but it doesnt mean thats the case in all circumstances. Just food for thought.

 

[bbg]

As far as I can see, helmets are very good at preventing minor grazes, reasonable at preventing small injuries and likely to make really bad accidents a lot worse.

Not according to this website.

 

[V1701]

Isn't the "problem" with cycle helmets the fact that a hell of a lot of people you see wearing them don't have them properly positioned on their head with straps properly adjusted? Similarly wearing LJ with, e.g. crotch strap undone or too loosely fitted. If you're going to use them then at least use them properly and whether or not you choose to use one is up to you because there isn't a law (yet) that says you must. Why so many people feel the need to persuade everyone that they should or shouldn't I'm not sure. Fragile egos, competitive society we live in, etc, etc...

 

[TradewindSailor]

A problem with age is that your mind gets fixed and you get stuck in your ways. You have difficulty recognising that there isnt always one "correct" way to do things.

I particularly liked the "train my crew" bit. Master under God eh?

I don't know where you get 'one "correct" way' from. I am mearly stating what I have learnt by MY experience and from what I have learnt from other people's experiences. Everyone has the freedom to do what they want ..... unless the captain orders otherwise

 

[Ubergeekian]

Not sure what you mean by only seeing a subset? Doesnt everyone go to A+E, first?

Not the ones whom helmets save from a minor scrape, not the ones who decided not to cycle because the need for a helmet made it look scary and a disproportionate number of less skilled cyclists

As regards the survey,my sister runs a neuro ward. They seem to have a different opinion to the survey you mention. Wearing a bike helmet is also a full requirement of any bike racing.

In the case of racing it seems to be sensible because they chances of a relatively low speed tangled mass of cyclists is rather higher than a full on on high speed collision with a car.

I m not advocating any requirement to wear one for leisure use, any more than one should have to wear a life jacket. I m sure there are occasions were either will be a life saver, but it doesnt mean thats the case in all circumstances. Just food for thought.

I agree completely. What safety gear is sensible depends on the user and the circumstances.

 

[davidej]

We decided to fit 'crotch-straps' to all our lifejackets last year. However I nearly changed my mind when I read the results of the Ouzo inquiry.

Apparently the crew with crotch-straps lasted 20 hrs before they drowned but those without, only four hrs.

I know which I would prefer!

 

[rivonia]

so ... We must always wear a lj just incase night comes on suddenly and loved one washes overboard?

So ... I guess we should always wear full body armour and fireproof suit just incase the mast falls down and the engine/gas catches fire ...

I assume you wear a lj when taking a bath or walking in the rain (you can drown in a puddle you know) ...

Ffs man - get a grip ... Can you not assess the need for a lj in appropriate circumstances? If not i wouldn't want to sail with you.

what a prat