Wearing Lifejackets Whilst Sailing

[monkfish24]

I always wear an LJ when the boat is underway. My choice.

If you don't wear an LJ thats of no interest to me. Your choice.

Perfectly sensible POV, just wish more people adopted it

 

[jpcarter30]

Lifejackets are extremely cool to wear and everyone on my boat setting foot in the cockpit puts one on with their lifeline if it's the kids. Nothing wrong with that.

 

[snooks]

Climbers have helmets, drivers have speed limits, cyclist have helmets too, and yachties have life jackets. In all these groups you'll find two schools of thought with very little middle ground between the two camps.

 

[photodog]

I love my Lifejacket!

 

[jac]

I always wear an LJ when the boat is underway. My choice.

If you don't wear an LJ thats of no interest to me. Your choice.

In a nutshell the problem is that some want to take the choice away - after all - Nanny knows best - the plebs musn't take risks or use their brains.

I can see the need to take action when the stupidity of one person might kill another ( e.g. drink driving) but if one persons poor risk assessment / stupidity only kills them then that's a win -win. Gene Pool improved - lower population. (And no offence to anyone who has lost someone in this situation)

My one prayer for this financial crisis is that the funding for nanny will be cut and people will start making there own decisions

 

[Searush]

I love my Lifejacket!

(snip)

Looks more like you are bonking your weekend bag there mr Dog

 

[Jamesuk]

Everytime I read about a sailing accident, I always think or ask "were they wearing Life Jackets?" It is almost natural, If they were not I think inexperienced if they were I also think inexperienced.

I have my Spinlock Deckvest and to enable me to look cool and kitted out I wear it, most of the time and have my black double clipped tether to hand for those upwind sail changes.

20 years ago "it wasnt cool" to wear a crash helmet on bicycles, These days its seen as "uncool" not to.

I have never gone over the side of the boat, unless it was on purpose, but this is not to say that one day something outside of my control may cause me to go flying, but with experience this likely hood becomes less and less likely. Until I reach a certain age that the love of Sailing plays against this experience and what the body can cope with.

So where do I stand, Wear it as soon as you think you need to put that first Reef in ! (if Adults are playing on the boat - If children are - wear from the word GO

 

[silver-fox]

Rules on our boat are; you wear a life jacket whenever you wish and when the skipper tells you to.

My new year's resolution is to wear one more often and clip on more often.

All this talk about nanny state etc is a distraction - after all who the hell is going to enforce such rules?

As as already been said, its down to individual choice whatever laws maybe introduced

 

[Vindleka]

Lifejackets

Quote If I feel unsafe without a lifejacket - I wear one.

Personal choice - long may it last!

Most of the time onboard I have valued manoeverabilty over wearing a lifejacket, as I have found that wearing one restricts my movements and makes me less intuitive as I move around the boat. However, there are times when I feel less secure, either because of the sea motion or because of unpredictable wind and wave conditions, and it is in those conditions that I wear the lifejacket with integrated harness. The only time I have used one in ernest was in a simulation in a swimming pool, and after that experience, I would choose a harness over a lifejacket every time.

 

[Ubergeekian]

I dunno, I hate these threads... for the simple reason that we wear a LJ all the time.. and these sorts of threads only really help to make me feel like a idiot for doing so... I wonder how many have drowned because they felt foolish for wearing a lifejacket because "They get in the way of the real sailor" or wearing one "is a infringment of my civil liberties....

By far the most serious risk, statistically, on a sailing yacht is head injury, normally caused by the boom. Would you ever consider wearing a crash helmet while sailing? If not, why not?

For me, by the way, the answers would be "No" and "Because I'd feel silly" and yet I know that I'm being very illogical.

 

[Ubergeekian]

Fair question. The experience is unfortunate and unpleasant I'm afraid, involving too many searches over too many years for the bodies of people lost overboard, and often not wearing L/Js. (and that's all I'm prepared to say about it on a public forum)

What do you think would have done more to reduce the number of bodies: more lifejackets or more clipped on harnesses?

 

[Alfie168]

It seems that every year there are tragedies when people go ashore in dinghies, and the dinghy tips over in the dark on the trip back to the boat, and when the bodies are found they are not wearing life jackets, or even climbing aboard from a pontoon and slipping between boat and pontoon...same scenario

These people are often far from being evinrude kids, they are often mature experienced sailors. I can't believe they all chose suicide, so it can only be that dear old standby "It'l never happen to me"..except it does, we all know it does. Somebody has to fish them out, somebody has to tell the families and so on, and the ramifications go way beyond 'The nanny state' which is becoming one of those meaningless buzz words that people trot out when they are feeling a bit grumpy.

I agree about being hooked on, whats to disagree with, but I can't for the life of me see why being hooked on makes sense, but wearing a life jacket doesn't for some strange "personal freedom" reason.

If you want 'personal freedom' why restrict yourself to the confines of a boat, why not just stroll around on the sea from time to time. Now that would impress me. Not wearing a life jacket does not however.

Tim

 

[Jamesuk]

What do you think would have done more to reduce the number of bodies: more lifejackets or more clipped on harnesses?

Actually bloody good point, the harness is the best option, the lifejacket with harness built in is the fail save option.

I have been at the bow of a 70ft yacht off shore conducting a sail change and the bloody lifejacket went off and I could not do anything productive. I was also clipped in.

I remember one experience that will live with me, I was at the bow of the yacht, a retard who now has a yachtmaster (actually he is a nice guy) manages to wine glass the No1 headsail, I found myself in short (sail change) unclipping in force 6 1am in the morning because I could not get to the next jackstay at the bow, the following week I ordered a double tether Spinlock job which I keep with me at all times when conditions dictate.

DOUBLE length TETHER with TRUE HARNESS THEN LIFEJACKET!

 

[prv]

I agree but i'm of the opposite persuasion, i've only worn a l/j twice (in about 8 years), when the race commitee decided for me!

I don't like threads like these because there are too many wingers saying we "have to" be wearing them and it should be compulsory.

This isn't meant at you personally at all.

I ALWAYS brief new and inexperienced crew on the boat on how to use one, explain it doesn't look daft and then point out other people who are wearing them just to make the crew realise it isn't a no no at all, at the end of the day i always leave it to personal choice EXCEPT if i'm wearing one, everyone is.

I didn't snip anything, because I thoroughly agree with all of it.

I too have rarely worn a lifejacket on a yacht (sitting on the rail in big seas, and shorthanded at night, being the exceptions, more for the harness than the jacket). I do wear one these days (and insist others do) on those occasions that the chartered boat's dinghy turns out to be a joke and it has an outboard (outboards being the easiest way I've yet found to flip a small inflatable - never done it but came damn close once). Otherwise I don't wear one, for the same reason I don't wear a helmet, neck brace and body armour while walking on the pavement beside a main road.

My grandparents never wore lifejackets on their yachts, neither did my parents, neither did I when I sailed with them as a kid. The sea hasn't got more dangerous over that time, only people's attitudes have changed. Not that that change is all bad (some of the stories from when my parents used to sail with my grandad are hair-raising, and unthinkable now) but I think it's important to remember than a human attitude change is all it is - the sea continues as it always has.

I tense up inside whenever I overhear yet another person saying that something or other should either be banned or mandatory - it seems to have become a national epidemic in the last ten years or so. I went on the anti-hunting-ban march years ago, not because I have ever hunted or am ever likely to, but because I object to governments banning things that are none of their business.

When I'm sailing with people who haven't before, I do have a little lifejacket speech that sounds similar to yours. We fit them and stow them where they can be found (makes it a real thing to people not just an abstract concept). I am always supportive when someone thinks they might prefer to wear theirs. But until the risk is serious enough for me to order them, it's personal choice.

Pete

 

[fireball]

Every year there are tragedies - a few people die whilst in or around boats.
As you say, many of these accidents happen when transfering between boats - this is the most dangerous time - but does this mean that we must all wear LJs all the time?

Mostly I don't wear a LJ - either in the tender or on the boat - unless I think the weather/seastate warrants it. Why? Because I'm (realtively) fit, young, agile and can swim (plenty of boats around and the shore is very close) - also mostly boating with others who would assist if I did go in.
I suppose that put's me in your 'It'll never happen to me' box ... however I disagree - because I make the decision everytime I go out I'm assessing the dangers and not relying on my comfort blanket to 'save my life' - and when the risk heightens then I'll put the LJ (with harness) on. We purchased new LJ's last season - and made sure we've got comfortable ones that are quick and easy to put on & adjust.

Wearing LJ's impressing me? No - not really as it is a personal/skipper descision.
Nanny state - yes we are - in many things, but thankfully not quite there with LJs - yet. I see no reason to expect Nanny state to bubblewrap my world to ensure I stay safe from everything - infact I'd rather know about the dangers and how to avoid them rather than Nanny telling me to 'wear this bit of safety gear and you'll be all right' - then at least I can understand why it may be a good idea to wear the safety gear.

 

[webcraft]

.
Our harnesses clip on to our LJs so if we are wearing a harness we also have an LJ on. We rarely wear LJs when not wearing harnesses, but there will be some occasions when the LJs go on first because we know we are likely to be wanting to clip on soon. If other people want to wear one on our boat that is fine as well.

The 'pointless' argument is nonsense - especially if you are in warm waters, whre you could survive for 24 hours. If you have a personal EPIRB and a lifejacket in reasonably warm shark-free water you are in pretty good shape, and if you only have an LJ and someone hits the MOB button on the GPS quicky you still have a erasonable chance even if you are doing 9 knots downwind.

Sure, it is better to be clipped on - but harnessses and jackstays have been known to fail, and there really is no downside to wearing a lifejacket that I can think of. It's (fortunately) a personal choice and no-one is forcing anyone to do anything, so why trolls like this periodically attempt to make people who wear LJs regularly feel inadequate I do not know.

- W

 

[TradewindSailor]

What a load of rubbish. How come such an expert on lifejackets when never used them. Modern lifejackets are generally excellent, comfortable and reliable - certaily none of ours has ever gone off in a rainstorm, though I know it is theoretically possible

Remember to take your seatbelt off when in the car - and preferably attach a blade to the stering wheel - as these safety features also will give you a "false sense of security"

It seems that there may be many people out there wearing life-jackets and haven't tested them recently.

I have had an automatic life-jacket inflate in a rainstorm, although some years ago. This type was triggered by a tablet that desolved when wet. Perhaps they have changed the design since then.

I know an instructor that regularly does sea survival training. He has told me of his experiences with students jumping into the water with their own inflateable life-jackets, and the failure rate was significant. He also warned against partially inflating the lifejacket by mouth before jumping in as the automatic inflation could burst the life jacket.

It would be very interesting to have sailors' life-jackets tested and see how many failures there are. I suspect that they are way more unreliable than life-rafts ...... and how may of those are failed each year?

 

[snooks]

20 years ago "it wasnt cool" to wear a crash helmet on bicycles, These days its seen as "uncool" not to.

Guess you don't live in the east end of London where every other bike is a single speed

There have been various reports on the effectiveness of cycle helmets. The cycle touring club are of the opinion that they do more harm to the image of cycling by making it look dangerous than it is, than they benefit the wearer in the event of he collision.

One fact often quoted it that in Aus where helmets are compulsory, cycle use has reduced and the death rate of cyclist (which is small anyway) has remained constant even though everyone wears a helmet.

Are the RNLI in danger of making sailing appear more dangerous than it is?

How many lives would PFDs save? Or have they saved in Ireland?

I feel it should be up to the individual (or skipper), and as such the individual has the right to make their own decision, and as such their decision should be respected.

We all do things that involve risk, whether it's crossing the road or driving a car.

How many people wear a helmet when driving a car, for example, when head injuries in car accident are a significant danger? There is a serious danger there but we as individuals asses the risk involve and act accordingly.

 

[sailorman]

Wonder what Eric Tabarly thinks about this

he was single handed on a fast boat l/j irrelevant a harness would have been better as previously stated

 

[sailorman]

Climbers have helmets, drivers have speed limits, cyclist have helmets too, and yachties have life jackets. In all these groups you'll find two schools of thought with very little middle ground between the two camps.

many cyclists wear helmets & dark clothes.
No helmet & Bright Clothing would be much safer