Portofino
Well-known member
Posts #2 +5
Volvo TAMD 73/74 and 75 ECU - Cause for concern?
- Thread starter Imperial One
- Start date
rafiki_
Well-known member
I agree with you Trevor. There will be several truck ecu’s that could be developed to work.
volvopaul
Well-known member
No they are not , this base unit used in 7 litre applications way back in F7 truck , eventually this one got a stoked crank using same 6.7 litre bore to 7.4 giving it another stress free 50 hp in the 75 over the earlier 6.7 71/72/73 .
Thousands in gen set use too .
Back to the ECU question I can’t see Volvo making them for just few orders .
Be great if we could find someone interested in looking at one and working out which chip has failed .
dryfisher
New member
Yes, this will be great, but there are a lot of problems to repair this ECU's:
- The ECU's are filled with Epoxy, after removing the epoxy, the labels are no longer legible.
- The ECU's are 20 years old and some of the chips are no longer manufactured. If a different chip is used, the software must be changed.
- The ECU is a device that takes on many important functions, who wants to take responsibility if an accident occurs?
oldgit
Well-known member
If it is moisture or water damage is causing the the failures. , faulty chips on PCB s in cars invariably damage other components at the same time.
vas
Well-known member
it is going to be a nice little earner for someone (NOT ME!)
however, getting the fuelling vs pressure or whatever else maps wrong is going to be disastrous!
it's not like doing a nice relaxed engine ecu knowing the user will be running it either at set rpm and set load, or just pootling about.
We are talking things stressed to the limit, something going 2-5% off and you got some pistons and con-rods flying about.
who's going to take the responsibility and who's going to get an engine on an equiv. of a rolling road to test it under load?
guess the answer is noone, hence nothing looks like is going to happen sadly.
Even Volvo designing a new ECU (please stop thinking that they're going to recreate a 20yo ecu, don't think that could happen!) means getting an engine in the bench and testing it. You recon they bother? why? in order not to annoy 50-100 punters on s/h boats? really?
if they've made sure their current engine line is stock item on 70% of the boats of the genre, why would they bother?
V.
however, getting the fuelling vs pressure or whatever else maps wrong is going to be disastrous!
it's not like doing a nice relaxed engine ecu knowing the user will be running it either at set rpm and set load, or just pootling about.
We are talking things stressed to the limit, something going 2-5% off and you got some pistons and con-rods flying about.
who's going to take the responsibility and who's going to get an engine on an equiv. of a rolling road to test it under load?
guess the answer is noone, hence nothing looks like is going to happen sadly.
Even Volvo designing a new ECU (please stop thinking that they're going to recreate a 20yo ecu, don't think that could happen!) means getting an engine in the bench and testing it. You recon they bother? why? in order not to annoy 50-100 punters on s/h boats? really?
if they've made sure their current engine line is stock item on 70% of the boats of the genre, why would they bother?
V.
andy59
Well-known member
11,000 views of this thread that Volvo Penta's PR department might be interested in ?
Alicatt
Well-known member
volvopaul
Well-known member
I doubt it very much .
andy59
Well-known member
No ips and my TAMD75 s are fine at the moment ?Nice boat, shame about the TAMD...
Wonder if you can connect a CAT to an IPS
petem
Well-known member
We've discussed how these might be re-manufactured in other threads on this topic. It's not impossible but there are main challenges,...
1) Finding a suitable programmable ECU to base the solution on.
2) Figuring out the mapping for the injector plus how it interrelates with the various sensors on the engine (for boost pressure, fuel temperature, air temperature, etc).
3) Reverse engineering all of the other functions (gear selection, error messages, supercharger activation, etc).
4) Testing (that can only be done with a donor engine).
5) Liability issues (i.e. engines blowing due to defects in a 3rd party ECU).
Whilst there's the prospect of VP resuming production I can't see anyone making the investment to come up with a viable solution.
andy59
Well-known member
If volvo don't want to make them, surely they could at least make the tech specs available so that someone prepared to copy them wouldn't be doing it blindfold. I bet there are some 16 year olds that could knock them up easily when you consider what they can program nowadays. BTW Pete, mine don't have superchargers.
Megs20Burt!
Active member
Factor in a global chip shortage currently with estimates forecasting a return to normal supply early to mid 2022...
kashurst
Well-known member
I don't think with modern microcontrollers it is particularly difficult to make an ECU to run these engines.
A PIC micro or an arduino pcb could do it easily. The fuel injection pump is controlled with a PWM drive and the feedback position sensor inside the pump is very clever but known. Bosch publish the details on all their old sensors and circuits. The temp and pressure sensors are all pretty simple.
The problem is testing and liability.
I am wondering if it would be easier to modify and fit an old style mechanical injection pump instead from a similar sized engine.
A PIC micro or an arduino pcb could do it easily. The fuel injection pump is controlled with a PWM drive and the feedback position sensor inside the pump is very clever but known. Bosch publish the details on all their old sensors and circuits. The temp and pressure sensors are all pretty simple.
The problem is testing and liability.
I am wondering if it would be easier to modify and fit an old style mechanical injection pump instead from a similar sized engine.
superheat6k
Well-known member
The Searanger I have been interested in recently has TAMD74's. This nonsense is certainly enough to put me off any further consideration, indeed I think I would make efforts to avoid anything VP in the future. Most of their engines > 15 years old are now suffering spare part obsolesence, and those parts that are available are simply a rip off.
Would anyone with half a brain seriously consider a boat with IPS drives when they reach past say 12 years old ?
Would anyone with half a brain seriously consider a boat with IPS drives when they reach past say 12 years old ?
DavidJ
Well-known member
It must be possible but when you consider remachining the head to take the injectors, configuring a rotary injection pump to fit an engine specifically designed for common rail.
Thats just two for starters.
kashurst
Well-known member
the KAD 44/300 and TAMD 73/74/75 are not common rail engines.
The rotary pump on the kad44/300 is a modified mechanical injection pump from the VE bosch series. The sping and lever governor bits have been taken out and replaced with a simple motor and sensor to control the spill ring.
The in-line pump on the tamd 73/73 is a development from the pumps on 71/72s (I think) and controlled in a similar way to the kad edc rotary pump.
So the fuel injectors and pipes stay the same. My idea was fitting a tuned VE series mechanical pump to a kad44/300 from a kad 42.
Take the governor and over fuel/smoke control device from a kad 42 pump and fit it in a kad 44/300 pump.
Control the supercharger on the kads with a simple rpm sensing switch similar to the kad 42.
Similarly an inline pump from a tamd 71/72 to a 73/74.
Bran
Active member
There are several companies that make stand alone programmable ECU units.
For example Protech show a Sinoptic ECU connected to a D12 engine.
Volvo D12a
SCS Delta also have some flexible ECU with independent programmable outputs.
Delta ECU Range | scs-delta
For example Protech show a Sinoptic ECU connected to a D12 engine.
Volvo D12a
SCS Delta also have some flexible ECU with independent programmable outputs.
Delta ECU Range | scs-delta
Megs20Burt!
Active member
Good find, they don’t list any VP engines that I can find, but will build anything using a “representative“ engine at a cost of £5k.
vas
Well-known member
and pretty sure there will be some clear disclaimer regarding pistons exiting the block sideways...
they are fine on a rolling road on a car not sure boats would work
they are fine on a rolling road on a car not sure boats would work