Volvo MD22L-b

[wheels]

I have an Oceanis 411 fitted with a MD22L-b, it started smoking badly and a lot of diesel or oil is coming out of exhaust, I have had the injectors and the injection pump reconditioned and I have had the cylinder head reconditioned and skimmed slightly, the compression seems Ok and there is no signs of wear in the bores, I am at a loss to trace the problem. this all happened after a diesel bug event, threw away the affected diesel cut holes in the top of the tank and cleaned it out refilled the tank and added a strong dose of Marine 16 bug remover and the conditioner. I am now considering a complete rebuild or a new engine, the MD22 has done less than 2000 hours.

any ideas or comments?

 

[Supertramp]

How many hours have you done since all that rebuilding and cleaning, and what kind of hours (long runs or short)?

Is diesel getting into the oil?

Did the person who did the injectors confirm they were operating correctly?

2000 hours doesn't sound a lot but I know my boat had a Volvo D2 55hp engine replaced after 2700 hours/18 years which seemed very short to me.

 

[TSB240]

I have the same engine but with a lot fewer hours. It can be quite smokey on cold start but usually clears up after a minute or so. Apparently quite normal. Burns about 1/4 litre over a season.

Immediate questions are:

If it is oil burning how much is it consuming have you measured it?

Have you checked for contamination of your engine oil with diesel?

Is this a DIY rebuild or have you had a professional rebuild?

You say the compression seems OK ? Have you measured it?

If you want further advice PM Stuart Davies aka beneteau381 as he has forgotten more about these engines than I have picked up.

 

[wheels]

How many hours have you done since all that rebuilding and cleaning, and what kind of hours (long runs or short)?

Is diesel getting into the oil?

Did the person who did the injectors confirm they were operating correctly?

2000 hours doesn't sound a lot but I know my boat had a Volvo D2 55hp engine replaced after 2700 hours/18 years which seemed very short to me.

Hi, thanks for the interest, We have only run the engine as check to see if there has been any improvment since injectors, pump and head done, the boat has not moved engine just run under load.The injectors Pump and head were rnovated by company that specialises in reconditioning these items, they were asked to put new nozels in the in the injectors and to do what is needed to recondition the pump

 

[Supertramp]

It will be difficult to judge if and how things have changed until it's done several or many normal load hours. Different engine (Beta) but I sometimes see traces of smoke in the exhaust (which is normally barely visible) but it always clears in 10 mins and is probably just bits of carbon burning off. It takes a long time to get properly hot (like 30-60 mins).

Monitor everything you can while test running, like exact oil level on dipstick, is there really still oil or diesel in the exhaust water and check for no oil in sealed cooling water and probably worth double checking primary and secondary diesel filters are clean. Not sure how easy it is on your engine but checking the glow plugs after running can show if a cylinder has a problem.

 

[TSB240]

The running in procedure for a new MD 22 took 50hours! This was recommended with boat underway and periods of WOT.

Given all the work you have had done I think you should have the confidence to run it hard for a while.

These engines have a very low compression ratio and need running hard to get to operating temperature.

Incomplete combustion and oil traces could be a sign of low compression or that the engine is running cold.
I would give your engine a good "Italian tune up" before going any further.

It might be worth checking the thermostat has not failed in the open position or just fit a new one anyhow before doing this. A cheap lidl laser temperature monitor "gun" is great tool for this and checking exhaust temperatures. Isolating your calorifier if fitted might help with quicker warm up.

I fitted an exhaust gas temperature monitoring probe with readout and alarm. This barely registers any significant increase in temperature from start up until I have motored hard for 10 to 15 minutes. But it gives a virtually instant warning of engine overheat due to a blocked water intake,failed raw water impeller or a closed seacock!
The standard engine temperature sensor will not trigger until you have probably melted your exhaust trap and are well on the way to a major bottom end rebuild.

 

[wheels]

The running in procedure for a new MD 22 took 50hours! This was recommended with boat underway and periods of WOT.

Given all the work you have had done I think you should have the confidence to run it hard for a while.

These engines have a very low compression ratio and need running hard to get to operating temperature.

Incomplete combustion and oil traces could be a sign of low compression or that the engine is running cold.
I would give your engine a good "Italian tune up" before going any further.

It might be worth checking the thermostat has not failed in the open position or just fit a new one anyhow before doing this. A cheap lidl laser temperature monitor "gun" is great tool for this and checking exhaust temperatures. Isolating your calorifier if fitted might help with quicker warm up.

I fitted an exhaust gas temperature monitoring probe with readout and alarm. This barely registers any significant increase in temperature from start up until I have motored hard for 10 to 15 minutes. But it gives a virtually instant warning of engine overheat due to a blocked water intake,failed raw water impeller or a closed seacock!
The standard engine temperature sensor will not trigger until you have probably melted your exhaust trap and are well on the way to a major bottom end rebuild.

thanks for this, the running so far is at the berth in gear, the smoke is now only at start up and it has been very cold weather which would make the smoke worse, I could live with that but it is the oil or diesel sheen that is the problem, we have checked the thermostat and it works. I will check the running temp and see what that is.

The running in procedure for a new MD 22 took 50hours! This was recommended with boat underway and periods of WOT.

Given all the work you have had done I think you should have the confidence to run it hard for a while.

These engines have a very low compression ratio and need running hard to get to operating temperature.

Incomplete combustion and oil traces could be a sign of low compression or that the engine is running cold.
I would give your engine a good "Italian tune up" before going any further.

It might be worth checking the thermostat has not failed in the open position or just fit a new one anyhow before doing this. A cheap lidl laser temperature monitor "gun" is great tool for this and checking exhaust temperatures. Isolating your calorifier if fitted might help with quicker warm up.

I fitted an exhaust gas temperature monitoring probe with readout and alarm. This barely registers any significant increase in temperature from start up until I have motored hard for 10 to 15 minutes. But it gives a virtually instant warning of engine overheat due to a blocked water intake,failed raw water impeller or a closed seacock!
The standard engine temperature sensor will not trigger until you have probably melted your exhaust trap and are well on the way to a major bottom end rebuild.

Thanks, 50 hours to run in is a lot, the engins seems ok it starts easily and the oil is almost the same colour as new after a seasons running, I have a temp gun on the boat, I will check the temp after a hard run and see what is says, I also have a temp probe on the exhaust just where the water is injected in, , I will run it hard for a while and see waht happens, the bit I fear is loosing another season, age is creeping up.

 

[TSB240]

Running in at berth is a much lighter loading on the engine than pushing a bow wave!
I fully sympathise about loosing another season as last year was lost to recovery after heart valve surgery.

Co incidentally I have been checking our raw water pump and timing belt out today. I might take the exhaust elbow off for inspection if I can get a bit more heat into the engine compartment!

 

[Beneteau381]

Running in at berth is a much lighter loading on the engine than pushing a bow wave!
I fully sympathise about loosing another season as last year was lost to recovery after heart valve surgery.

Co incidentally I have been checking our raw water pump and timing belt out today. I might take the exhaust elbow off for inspection if I can get a bit more heat into the engine compartment!

There is an article coming out next issue about changing the cam belt. Ive just done mine again

 

[NormanS]

There is an article coming out next issue about changing the cam belt. Ive just done mine again

I hope that it recommends changing the water pump at the same time.

 

[Beneteau381]

I have an Oceanis 411 fitted with a MD22L-b, it started smoking badly and a lot of diesel or oil is coming out of exhaust, I have had the injectors and the injection pump reconditioned and I have had the cylinder head reconditioned and skimmed slightly, the compression seems Ok and there is no signs of wear in the bores, I am at a loss to trace the problem. this all happened after a diesel bug event, threw away the affected diesel cut holes in the top of the tank and cleaned it out refilled the tank and added a strong dose of Marine 16 bug remover and the conditioner. I am now considering a complete rebuild or a new engine, the MD22 has done less than 2000 hours.

any ideas or comments?

The prob is that nobody knows whether the work done was done correctly. Getting hold of the injector nozzles can only be done by stripping the original injectors and getting the ORIGINAL numbers off them. P4E have them but you need to get your original numbers to choose the right ones. Why did you have the head skimmed? Why was the injector pump messed with? My engine has done 3500 hours, the pump is still good. Overhaul, what exactly was done? These engines have unusual valve stem seals, difficult to find the correct ones. Wrong ones will allow oil past them. What oil are you using! You need a basic 15/40 non synthetic oil.
Is your lift pump ok? The diaphragm can leak and diesel will get in your oil, check the level. Very unlikely mind.
They do smoke, part of the low compression ratio thing. Mine uses about half a litre a season now. Nothing to speak of.
You speak of it happening after bug treatment?
I would run it hard for several hours at sea. See what it comes out at then. Then you need someone who knows what they are doing to take a look.
These engines are bullet proof. They certainly don’t need “overhauling” at a couple of thousand hours.
One last thing if you are capable is get the engine ticking over, loosen each injector pipe nut one at a time and check that the engine revs drop as each one is cracked. BE CAREFUL! The fuel is under high pressure and can penetrate your skin! If the revs don’t drop on a cylinder when the nut is cracked open then that injector is an issue.

 

[Beneteau381]

I hope that it recommends changing the water pump at the same time.

I’ve changed my cam belt three times, the fresh water pump is fine. This isn’t a car engine where they are difficult to get at and the cam belt doesn’t drive the water pump.

 

[NormanS]

I’ve changed my cam belt three times, the fresh water pump is fine. This isn’t a car engine where they are difficult to get at and the cam belt doesn’t drive the water pump.

Well, mine's an MD22. (Not sure of the letters defining which particular model.)
Removing the fresh water pump definitely involves taking off the timing belt, which does indeed drive the fresh water pump. I know because I've had to do it.

 

[Beneteau381]

Well, mine's an MD22. (Not sure of the letters defining which particular model.)
Removing the fresh water pump definitely involves taking off the timing belt, which does indeed drive the fresh water pump. I know because I've had to do it.

Sorry but you are wrong, the water pump is driven by the V alternator belt.

 

[Beneteau381]

Well, mine's an MD22. (Not sure of the letters defining which particular model.)
Removing the fresh water pump definitely involves taking off the timing belt, which does indeed drive the fresh water pump. I know because I've had to do it.

Volvo MD22l-B timing belt change - Jeanneau Owners Network

I know as well cause I’ve done it several times

 

[Hoolie]

I've changed the timing belt on our Perkins Prima 50 that of course, apart from the paint colour, looks exactly like your photo! The water pump is clearly driven by the alternator v-belt - how could it be otherwise? And I'm reassured by your comments on the robustness of this engine ...

ps I changed the valve stem seals to a type that embodies a small circular spring. Prior to that, the engine smoked a lot on start up but now there is hardly any and oil consumption is minimal.

 

[TSB240]

Yesterday I only had to take the water circulation pump vee drive pulley off before removing the timing belt cover and gaining full access to the timing belt and water pump.

The water pump is most definitely driven by a vee belt on my MD22.

I do suspect it is easier to remove the water pump after taking off the toothed timing cambelt but not impossible.
Would I bother just because the timing belt is being replaced?
£100 from parts 4 engines
Save your beer tokens as long as you have used an antifreeze/ inhibitor and your hot water calorifier gets hot and you don't have any signs of leakage from the seal.

 

[Beneteau381]

I've changed the timing belt on our Perkins Prima 50 that of course, apart from the paint colour, looks exactly like your photo! The water pump is clearly driven by the alternator v-belt - how could it be otherwise? And I'm reassured by your comments on the robustness of this engine ...

ps I changed the valve stem seals to a type that embodies a small circular spring. Prior to that, the engine smoked a lot on start up but now there is hardly any and oil consumption is minimal.

IIRC the original valve stem oil seals had a collar at the bottom and the springs as you describe. It sealed them admirably to prevent smoking. It would be interesting to know if they were used/replaced when the head was skimmed and refitted.

 

[Hoolie]

The valve stem seals I took off were plain neoprene? rings with no collar or springs. They were worn so that's why the engine used to smoke on start up. It is certainly worth the OP asking his engineer whether he fitted the sprung seals!

 

[MAURICE]

MD22L_A is the engine with the water pump driven by a cam
MD22L_B is the engine with the water pump driven by a belt
These engines have a design fault where a little diesel drips down onto the cylinders when stopped. Then on start up in cold conditions the blue smoke is very prominent for a short while. Apparently there is a fix for this which i have not done. I would run the engine under load for a while and give it some welly after it has properly run in