Visiting the EU & exceeding the 90/180 rule

[AntarcticPilot]

Wow!! But I find it very surprising that, even in the USA, an instant deportation 'with prejudice' could be sprung entirely without warning on a law-abiding family. (Think about the problems we have in the UK with arranging deportation). Either this family had sailed too close to the wind in other ways, or they had ignored prior proceedings.

Do we have the full story here? How did you discover what happened to them subsequently?

(Incidentally I saw a similar sort of swoop on a foreign yacht while I was in San Diego. Everyone wondered what that was all about - until later that day when Border Protection started removing little packages.)

It's at least part political. The USA has oscillated between fairly relaxed and pretty strict over time; the ease or difficulty we had arranging collaborators to work in the UK or the other way round varied enormously over time. It tended to operate on a tit for that basis; if we were being strict, they were and vice-versa. The crackdown described probably resulted because a local official had been given the nod to tighten up on those limeys because of some change in the political or diplomatic climate.

Also, the officials actually enforcing the regulations aren't always right - but they have the power to enforce what they think the regulations are! Long story short - my late wife had a US visa because she didn't have a British passport at the time. I hadn't realized I needed to do the ESTA thing. The official insisted we both needed to get ESTA, even though my wife didn't need one in right of her visa. No point arguing; the official was sure he was right, and making a fuss would just result in hassle and delay!

 

[mjcoon]

It's at least part political. The USA has oscillated between fairly relaxed and pretty strict over time; the ease or difficulty we had arranging collaborators to work in the UK or the other way round varied enormously over time. It tended to operate on a tit for that basis; if we were being strict, they were and vice-versa. The crackdown described probably resulted because a local official had been given the nod to tighten up on those limeys because of some change in the political or diplomatic climate.

Also, the officials actually enforcing the regulations aren't always right - but they have the power to enforce what they think the regulations are! Long story short - my late wife had a US visa because she didn't have a British passport at the time. I hadn't realized I needed to do the ESTA thing. The official insisted we both needed to get ESTA, even though my wife didn't need one in right of her visa. No point arguing; the official was sure he was right, and making a fuss would just result in hassle and delay!

Maybe this is an area where AI could be perceived to lead to advance... eventually!

 

[AntarcticPilot]

Maybe this is an area where AI could be perceived to lead to advance... eventually!

So far, AI has shown itself to be good at generating plausible lies!

Maybe it would be good at politics!

How do you tell when a politician is lying? Their lips move!

 

[mjcoon]

How do you tell when a politician is lying? Their lips move!

However I wouldn't trust a ventriloquist politician! Corollary thrombosis = inverse clot?

 

[Motor_Sailor]

Wow!! But I find it very surprising that, even in the USA, an instant deportation 'with prejudice' could be sprung entirely without warning on a law-abiding family.

They weren't a law abiding family - they had exceeded the duration of stay on their visa. But in the year they were living in our town, they had made a number of friends who then kept in touch with them and the on going saga was well known.

However despite making a good number of friends, they could well have made one enemy, or had become known to someone who was jealous of their lives or perhaps they were just a jobsworth. Whatever the motivation it only takes a single anonymous call to the immigration hotline and the local officers can improve their arrest statistics with very little effort.

 

[goeasy123]

I notice from Noonsite Malta are using the IMO loophole (see post #21). Greece have a similar, although harder to work method that lets 3rd country crew on 3rd country yachts stay indefinitely depending on their circumstances. ....nothing to do with residency, visas, seaman's documents or the like.

If anyone has a real and current need PM me and I'll see if I can get some relevant details or contact.

 

[dunedin]

Wow!! But I find it very surprising that, even in the USA, an instant deportation 'with prejudice' could be sprung entirely without warning on a law-abiding family. (Think about the problems we have in the UK with arranging deportation). Either this family had sailed too close to the wind in other ways, or they had ignored prior proceedings.

Do we have the full story here? How did you discover what happened to them subsequently?

(Incidentally I saw a similar sort of swoop on a foreign yacht while I was in San Diego. Everyone wondered what that was all about - until later that day when Border Protection started removing little packages.)

I think you are kind of missing the point - they were clearly not “law abiding” in that they were blatantly flouting the immigration laws.
Some seem very blasé about breaking immigration law - but as usual, “if you can’t serve the time, don’t do the crime”.

And in terms of Schengen over stay, the same applies. Need to think what might do for hobby, career and family if got an order banning return to the EU. Might be unlikely but assess consequences as well as probabilities.

 

[AntarcticPilot]

I think you are kind of missing the point - they were clearly not “law abiding” in that they were blatantly flouting the immigration laws.
Some seem very blasé about breaking immigration law - but as usual, “if you can’t serve the time, don’t do the crime”.

And in terms of Schengen over stay, the same applies. Need to think what might do for hobby, career and family if got an order banning return to the EU. Might be unlikely but assess consequences as well as probabilities.

They weren't a law abiding family - they had exceeded the duration of stay on their visa. But in the year they were living in our town, they had made a number of friends who then kept in touch with them and the on going saga was well known.

However despite making a good number of friends, they could well have made one enemy, or had become known to someone who was jealous of their lives or perhaps they were just a jobsworth. Whatever the motivation it only takes a single anonymous call to the immigration hotline and the local officers can improve their arrest statistics with very little effort.

Anyone knowingly overstaying their visa should be aware of the potential consequences,.

 

[AndrewB]

I think you are kind of missing the point - they were clearly not “law abiding” in that they were blatantly flouting the immigration laws.
Some seem very blasé about breaking immigration law - but as usual, “if you can’t serve the time, don’t do the crime”.

Sorry, but this runs quite against all my experience of US Border Protection. They are not the easiest organisation to deal with, but I do not believe they would take such draconian action in the case of a family that had entered the US legally, had not overstayed excessively or flagrantly, had not exceeded the terms of their visas (e.g. by working), were not engaged in criminal activity, and had received no prior warning. I think there is more to it than we know.

I have many anecdotes of run-ins with US BP over the years, where they have ultimately displayed pragmatism. I described my own experience of over-running above. Another example: when I left Puerto Rico a few years ago, I put down on the exit papers as my next port of call, Santiago de Cuba. "You can't put Cuba on an official United States document!" exclaimed the officer. "You want me to LIE on an official United States document," I replied. "Well - yes." So I crossed out 'Cuba' and wrote 'Chile'. Sorted.

Moreover they have been the only immigration officers I've experienced that have accepted in good part when I've corrected them and asked they check with a superior officer. I've twice done this.

 

[ImpImp]

Wow!! But I find it very surprising that, even in the USA, an instant deportation 'with prejudice' could be sprung entirely without warning on a law-abiding family. (Think about the problems we have in the UK with arranging deportation). Either this family had sailed too close to the wind in other ways, or they had ignored prior proceedings.

Do we have the full story here? How did you discover what happened to them subsequently?

(Incidentally I saw a similar sort of swoop on a foreign yacht while I was in San Diego. Everyone wondered what that was all about - until later that day when Border Protection started removing little packages.)

It's a common mistake to think that as they speak approximately the same language that the US operates in the same way as the UK, it emphatically does not. Relevant to this discussion, although their legal system and our have common roots, particularly when it comes to more recent 'Human Rights' type stuff it is a fundamental error to think that are similar as the examples quoted show.

 

[ylop]

It's exactly what happens in the US and Australia and I suspect most other countries. I know people that have fallen foul of immigration in the US and Oz the experiences were not pleasant.

And it is also exactly what happens in the UK!

Wow!! But I find it very surprising that, even in the USA, an instant deportation 'with prejudice' could be sprung entirely without warning on a law-abiding family. (Think about the problems we have in the UK with arranging deportation). Either this family had sailed too close to the wind in other ways, or they had ignored prior proceedings.

Don't believe everything you read in the Daily Mail, we refuse entry and return people every single day. We also deport people regularly. The people "we have problems arranging deportation of in the UK" are not people who have overstayed and will admit to an error and accept their return, they are people who (rightly or wrongly) seek asylum and are willing to stay in a detention centre for months whilst their case is processed. If you were in the US and your choice is leave on the next flight out or spend the next 3+ months in a US immigration facility whilst lawyers try to find an argument why you should not be returned to the UK then its not much of a choice.

Sorry, but this runs quite against all my experience of US Border Protection. They are not the easiest organisation to deal with, but I do not believe they would take such draconian action in the case of a family that had entered the US legally, had not overstayed excessively or flagrantly, had not exceeded the terms of their visas (e.g. by working), were not engaged in criminal activity, and had received no prior warning. I think there is more to it than we know.

But they HAD overstayed excessively and flagrantly.