Visiting the EU & exceeding the 90/180 rule

[goeasy123]

You may be able to avoid using up Schengen time.

Portugal is a signatory to the IMO's Convention on Facilitation of International Maritime Traffic (FAL) 1965 (amended). Not all signatory countries have adopted all the 'Recommended Practices', but I think Portugal has adopted the ones that allow master, crew and passengers to stay in transit, with only a passport as ID, as long as they spend the night on board their vessel. If this is the case you can stay for up to 6 months in the waters of Portugal without using Schengen time.

Greece and Malta have adopted these practices, maybe Spain and Italy. I don't think France does, requiring crew to be in paid employment with a Seaman's ID. The UK is the same.

 

[trialframe]

That's very interesting goeasy123 - I'll try and research that further. Thanks

 

[AntarcticPilot]

Handed my UK passport to passport control in Munich airport on a flight to the UK. The border guard flicked through the passport and noticed there was no entry stamp. He then questioned me as to why there was no entry stamp and I replied it was because I applied for the passport while resident in Germany and that I was also a German citizen. He then asked for my German ID or Passport, I supplied them and he immediately lost interest. So on my sample of one interaction with airport passport control they do check. Have no idea what would have happened if I hadn't been a German citizen though.

Before my late wife got British Citizenship, she travelled on a BN(O) passport, with permission to remain in the UK. So she was in the same position with regard to the EU as Brits are since Brexit. We had a worrying time at the airport in Hamburg once - she was stopped going through passport control at the airport. It turned out that she hadn't been checked out on a previous visit, so it appeared she'd long overstayed the permitted time for entry. Fortunately, there was other evidence that she hadn't been in the EU, and she got away with a warning not to allow it to happen again. But passport checks are much less casual than they sometimes appear. Of course, things may vary in efficiency from country to country, but with that experience, I would not take chances on an overstay not being detected.

 

[goeasy123]

That's very interesting goeasy123 - I'll try and research that further. Thanks

I'll PM you some information later today.

 

[mattonthesea]

You may be able to avoid using up Schengen time.

Portugal is a signatory to the IMO's Convention on Facilitation of International Maritime Traffic (FAL) 1965 (amended). Not all signatory countries have adopted all the 'Recommended Practices', but I think Portugal has adopted the ones that allow master, crew and passengers to stay in transit, with only a passport as ID, as long as they spend the night on board their vessel. If this is the case you can stay for up to 6 months in the waters of Portugal without using Schengen time.

Greece and Malta have adopted these practices, maybe Spain and Italy. I don't think France does, requiring crew to be in paid employment with a Seaman's ID. The UK is the same.

I have been told, but have no evidence, that some EU countries let digital nomads stay longer. But you need a digital working income. Others on this parish may know more.

 

[Fr J Hackett]

That's very interesting goeasy123 - I'll try and research that further. Thanks

I would be wary of expecting a simple customs officer not working in your first language to be conversant with what is essentially an international agreement that does not cross his desk in the course of monitoring domestic travellers.

 

[st599]

I have been told, but have no evidence, that some EU countries let digital nomads stay longer. But you need a digital working income. Others on this parish may know more.

A very few do (Croatia and Malta I think), you reside in that country, paying taxes but working for your non-EU employer. Requires a job that can be done 100% remotely, in a sector allowed by the TCA and an employer willing to deal with the foreign tax bureau.

 

[Sandy]

I have been told, but have no evidence, that some EU countries let digital nomads stay longer. But you need a digital working income. Others on this parish may know more.

I have a couple of digital nomad friends. They are currently in France on a long term visa.

EVERYBODY I know who had access to a passport of Schengen state made sure they applied as soon as they understood the issues.

 

[Baggywrinkle]

I have a couple of digital nomad friends. They are currently in France on a long term visa.

EVERYBODY I know who had access to a passport of Schengen state made sure they applied as soon as they understood the issues.

So did all the Brits I know who were eligible to apply for German citizenship - there was an E-Mail sent out by my employers to every British citizen on the personel database, advising them to sort out either a work visa or citizenship .- if they hadn't sorted it out by B-Day then they could no longer be legally employed. That spurred a few into action.

I think however there were many retired Brits who bought property in the EU but never registered with the local authorities as being resident - they just stayed for as long as they wanted and travelled backwards and forwards to the UK completely under the radar - even if you are an EU citizen you are still required to register if you stay in a country for more than 3 months. Many of these people are now having problems because when they came to apply for their post Brexit rights, the authorities concerned had no record of them at all, on paper they were just absentee property owners.

 

[lustyd]

I have been told, but have no evidence, that some EU countries let digital nomads stay longer. But you need a digital working income. Others on this parish may know more.

Usually you have to pay local tax in addition to home tax on earnings, so often not a good deal unless you are truly nomadic and work for yourself where only a single tax needs paying. There are all kinds of other caveats too so unless it's a genuine requirement I'd avoid these. They are now available in most countries though if you put some effort in to find the details.

 

[st599]

Usually you have to pay local tax in addition to home tax on earnings, so often not a good deal unless you are truly nomadic and work for yourself where only a single tax needs paying. There are all kinds of other caveats too so unless it's a genuine requirement I'd avoid these. They are now available in most countries though if you put some effort in to find the details.

The Nomad visas aren't for truly Nomadic workers, they allow you to work remotely for a non-EU company. So they get your cash without you taking up any local employment.

 

[Baggywrinkle]

The long a short of Nomad Visas ....

EU Digital Nomad Visa - Work Remotely From EU Countries

 

[lustyd]

The long a short of Nomad Visas ....

EU Digital Nomad Visa - Work Remotely From EU Countries

Thanks for this link, they seem to be removing the taxes and upping the fees which I think may end up being better over all. Some non-EU ones have huge tax burdens but hopefully will begin to change too.
That said, I feel like most of us would happily do some remote work these days and just not mention it if we don't need the extra time in country.

 

[Baggywrinkle]

Thanks for this link, they seem to be removing the taxes and upping the fees which I think may end up being better over all. Some non-EU ones have huge tax burdens but hopefully will begin to change too.
That said, I feel like most of us would happily do some remote work these days and just not mention it if we don't need the extra time in country.

I was doing "boat office" as often as possible in Croatia, but my employers rules have been changed considerably. I can now only remotely work for 20 days per year in another EU country, and not at all outside the EU.

An employer may be concerned about taxation rules. Working from a foreign country where your employing company has no legal entity could lead to the fiction of a permanent establishment from a tax perspective, in particular if an employee is directly generating revenue - this should hopefully be prevented by the host countries digital nomad tax arrangements, but who knows? In a worst case this would lead to the employer being obliged to tax their turnover (partly) in this foreign country.

If the employee is staying in his/her home country that is within the EU and the duration exceeds 183 days, the employee should be aware of the specifics of any double taxation agreements as a “cross-border commuter” with regards to income taxation. The same issues arise when staying outside the EU, dependent on any double taxation agreement between the country your employer is based in and the country you are working in.

Basically, you need a flexible employer who has a home-working arrangement specifically tailored for digital nomads, and an understanding host country who is not going to go after the employer for social security payments or taxation. Large companies tend not to do this in my experience, or they put strict limits on time allowed abroad.

 

[st599]

I was doing "boat office" as often as possible in Croatia, but my employers rules have been changed considerably. I can now only remotely work for 20 days per year in another EU country, and not at all outside the EU.

An employer may be concerned about taxation rules. Working from a foreign country where your employing company has no legal entity could lead to the fiction of a permanent establishment from a tax perspective, in particular if an employee is directly generating revenue - this should hopefully be prevented by the host countries digital nomad tax arrangements, but who knows? In a worst case this would lead to the employer being obliged to tax their turnover (partly) in this foreign country.

If the employee is staying in his/her home country that is within the EU and the duration exceeds 183 days, the employee should be aware of the specifics of any double taxation agreements as a “cross-border commuter” with regards to income taxation. The same issues arise when staying outside the EU, dependent on any double taxation agreement between the country your employer is based in and the country you are working in.

Basically, you need a flexible employer who has a home-working arrangement specifically tailored for digital nomads, and an understanding host country who is not going to go after the employer for social security payments or taxation. Large companies tend not to do this in my experience, or they put strict limits on time allowed abroad.

Mine requires you to prove you have permission to work in the country you want to work in - which is nigh on impossible under the TCA.

 

[Momac]

A colleague entered Holland with no exit stamp in his passport an instant €500 fine.

Exit from where?

 

[LittleSister]

Exit from where?

Brooklyn?

 

[trialframe]

We (UK citizens) sailed to Holland from Eastbourne last year on a Belgian registered boat. We entered the inland waterway system via the Imujen locks & then to Hoorn. Didn't check in at Holland (or out of the UK) . A week or so later we took the train to Amsterdam & then flew to Verona Italy.
Nothing was said by Dutch customs.

 

[Sandy]

Exit from where?

A Schengen nation.

 

[Momac]

I thought the whole idea of schengen is the scrapping of border controls ?